Transmission Rebuilders Network

700R4 / 4L60 Feedback

QUESTION:

Mileage: a lot

Repair History: Dave® -- Dave Foster wrote: > > Hi all I got a 1989 full size chevy pu trk 2x4 that I rebuilt the trans > in 700-R4 . the unit works great , but while driving down the road at a > steady speed the converter will unlock & lock back up for no reason. > the scanner shows it lock & unlock and you can feel it ,But it stays in > closed loop. The unit has new solenoid ,pressure switch & temp switch in > the trans , and sets no codes. > also the brake light switch has been replaced , because sometimes the > cruse control just shuts off & unlocks the converter , and the dealer > said that they have had a lot of trouble with this switch . well the > unit still locks & unlocks & the cruse will still just shuts off at > random , the truck stays in closed loop.And the thermostat has been > changed , the tps has been tested unable to find any glitches in it so > far . the map sensor vacuum lines are in good shape . but this thing > still unlocks and locks back up while driving steady and the cruse still > just shuts off randomly. > the speed sensor seems to work just fine. > doe's any one have any ideas for me on what to do or check next ? Thanks > for your help in this matter. > > Dave Foster d.b.a. The Transmission Technician > 1312 Morningside Dr Melbourne Fl 32901 > transtech@metrolink.net > AAMCO master certified-ASE-ATRA > Proud member of TRNi-technicians from around the world > working together on today's sophisticated transmissions > TRNi is second to none Dave Foster The Transmission Technician transtech@metrolink.net phone / fax (407)728-1155 Home page TRNi is second to none

Work Completed: Everything everyone posted

Summary: Sorry it took four months to Re: I can't work on it going down I95

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Aug 20 18:45:19 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  Hi all, I wanted to post a fix for this but don't have one. ( bummer ) We have tried everything that everyone suggested, and the VEP remains a mystery.. Sorry that it took so long to update this but we never can get the customer to leave the truck to fight with it. He has put over 30,000 miles on it now sense I rebuilt it. we still have the same problem, I just found out that the truck has been doing this for over two years, long before I rebuilt the trans. This truck is all hi/pro and just full of electric toys. Well I give up I can't fix it. P/S something else he even put on an after market cruise to stop the problem that he was having with it and it will not work either. Life goes on, and this VEP can go somewhere else. Thanks everyone that sent in suggestions. Dave®

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Fri Aug 20 20:50:25 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  David, The stoplight switch on this model pick up is adjustable. You can adjust it by the little tab that is sticking out on it. Also, do you watch the brake light swith off/on the scanner as you drive. I have found them to be right on the edge of the adjustment and turn off and on as the vehicle is drive. hope this helps

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Fri Aug 20 21:06:15 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  Roger, Thanks but that was on of the first things that we tried. Even replaced the switch because a friend at Chevy said they sell a lot of them. Every electronic part that could possibly have any thing to do with this has been replaced. It's a four month old post I just wanted to have an update so Tod would not get out his hat Or stop me from posting on the new form. . This truck is so full of add on electronics it's unreal. There is no telling what is causing the problem. This truck even has an ice box built into the custom seat that is a little refergiator. The owner has more money than brains, If you ask me. Dave®

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Sat Aug 21 05:50:56 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  How about using one of the many ways to bypass. Ball in snout of switch , using fourth gear switch and not worry about computer.

  Leonard Marucci
  len@kwiknet.net

• Date: Sat Aug 21 06:38:52 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  Dave,did you try changing the T.C.C valve-Sonnax has them for non-pwm and pwm types.CJ of Canada

  Jean Bracconier
  trantech@ilos.net

• Date: Fri Oct 15 06:07:08 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  Daniel, If the R/I drum bushings are only worn on one side & the drum support (stator support) is worn all the way around then the hole in the drum is off center, or the drum is out of balance.

  Ted Turney
  tedeb@prodigy.net

UPDATE:

Daniel Wills
dwills@foxinternet.net

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Fri Oct 15 18:50:06 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, worn reverse input drum bushings
  Daniel, I'm not going to tell you which route the lube takes on this unit, I need to look at the flow charts first, but you can betcha the material from this converter is going right into the cooler and that will plug up for sure, your best bet is to bypass that cooler and put a 25000 lbs tru-cool on it. It will even run cooler. I just finished an e4od that wiped out the low roller and forward planet and I took a clean bottle and back blew the cooler into it, you wouldn't believe the amount of converter clutch material that was in there. steve in spokane bassman sallbee@worldnet.att.net ph 1509-924-3159 fax 1-509-924-5044 web site www.customtrans.com -----Original Message----- From: TRNi Inc [SMTP:trnsman@netgate.net] Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 5:57 PM To: trni3@po.databack.com Subject: 700R4, worn reverse input drum bushings: UPDATE It's me again, I had the converter cut open today. The dampner spring assem came apart and gouged the turbine. It made some metal flakes. I thought about posting this as a fix but maybe someone can tell me why I am wrong. If you have flakes running into the lube circuit, couldn't that block lube to the drum directly, while flow is still maintained to the rear planets. This C/B is starting to make more sense. Daniel Wills dwills@foxinternet.ne

  Steve Allbee
  steve@customtrans.com

• Date: Sat Oct 16 07:36:45 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  hey David sounds like a coolant temp sensor to me or maybe it low on coolant lets hear what you find

  Jeff Anglesey
  oldtimer57@hotmail.com

• Date: Sat Oct 16 07:42:57 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, L/U locks & unlocks
  David, I had some do that. It turned out to be that the solenoid was craked where the ball seats. Another one I had do that turned out to be the VB. I don't know what in the VB, but after I changed all the electronics and such, I put a VB on it and it worked normal after that. What threw me on that one was that when I put a ball under the solenoid it would stay locked up.

  Mike Sullivan
  advance@cowtown.net

FIX;

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: N/A

Repair History: Hi Joe, It would be a lot easer to respond, if the post was done as a new problem. Instead of : Problem/Fix. Once the Fix is in the subject. The thread on the web site is closed. I think that you will have better luck getting help if you just post it as a new problem. ( JMHO )

Work Completed: None

Summary: Hi Joe, in 1985 GM. added a dam neer thr pump bolt hole buy the pressure blow off ball and spring. The area between the dam & bolt hole is now a void. cross leaks may fill this void with oil so an orficed cup plug was removed to give the void full exhaust. When an early pump body, no dam, is matched with a late cover then line pressure goes past the dam and out the exhaust hole. This causes low line pressure,delayed engagements, and slipping on shifts. Forget the casting numbers! Late pump covers will fit all pump bodies if you modify them buy pluging the exhaust hole. Use the small orificed cup plug avabile in SK 700 & SK 22-79 Shift kits. Early pump covers will fit all pump bodies as is. Late pump bodies will fit all pump covers as is. Early pump bodies will fit early covers as is & modified late covers. Summary: Always plug the hole in the late cover, then mix & match bodies and covers any way you choose. All of this info is in the A.T.R.A. 1990 seminar manual.

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

RESPONSES;

FIX;

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 120915

Repair History: Hi Group, I am having a problem with the speedo driven gear on the truck. It rounds out the square drive part of the Driven gear. It has the 90 adapter that goes on the speedo bullet which has been replaced also.

Work Completed: If I take the bullet attach it to the adapter and install a driven gear into it I can turn the gear by hand and it is free and smooth.This has stripped out the driven gear 3 times now in less than 200 miles. And there is no signs of any other gear damage ( hour glassing ) On the third try I even super glued in the drive lug into the driven gear, so I knew that the drive lug was getting full contact into the driven gear, for the most support. Do you have any idea as to what is causing this?

Summary: Need Help does anyone make a steel shank gear like chrysler for GM Thanks!

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Oct 26 13:07:29 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Rounding out the square Drive Speedo
  Hi Dave, A couple quick thoughts on this...Is the right angle adapter NEW? I've seen them intermittently/momentarily bind up, and strip drive tips and/or gears... Also, if this has a cruise control transducer, they can also momentarily bind up and do this.. One last thought...Is the tip on the Right angle adapter long enough to make at least 3/4" of tip engagement? How about the driven gear housing..I assume it's not worn allowing gear movement?? Thats all I know...Good Luck PTF Rod Cayko Rod's Transmission Services Coeur d' Alene, Idaho Member TRNi 1 & 2 "For Your Daily Fix"

  Rod Cayko
  cayko@aol.com

• Date: Tue Oct 26 15:11:35 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Rounding out the square Drive Speedo
  Hi Rod, Thanks for your thoughts. The adapter is not new and it does not have a transducer for cruise control. The driven gear housing was replaced on the second try with new, I don't see anything wrong with the old one though. The 90 adapter is off my truck and I put the one off the suburban on my truck, on the second try my speedo is still working fine, so I don't think that there is an intermittently/momentarily bind up with the adapter. I can take the little drive lug put it in a drill and run the speedo just fine Nice and smooth, the cable is free and the head works fine. If the head had a bind up I think that it would peg the needle before it could round out the square drive of the driven gear. The needle does not jump around it holds speed steady. On the third try I glued the metal driver lug down into the bottom of the speedo driven gear with super glue, so I know that it is getting full contact of the available square drive part of the driven gear. Im at a loss, as for what to do with it.

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Tue Oct 26 20:28:55 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Rounding out the square Drive Speedo
  Hi Dave When you swapped angle-drive with your truck,did you swap the insert also? Just wondering if the corners are rounded or worn a little. What about it maybe being bent also? If it was wobbling a little..........maybe..........dunno. Good Luck anyway.

  Chuck Clampitt
  mrshift@starcomm.net

FIX;

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 97762

Repair History: none that I know of

Work Completed: Rebuild with reaction planet and all the goodies

Summary: Hi Group, It's dumb question time again. I have a aluminum drive shaft in this truck and when I went to pull it I had to pry it out of the companion flange, when I got it out I have 2 coil tapered springs inside of the yoke. They load the output shaft to the front of the transmission. I have never seen anything like this before ( so im a little slow ) Are these springs suppose to be in the yoke and if so why. Are they to deaden noise or something? I just do not see why they would want to load the output shaft. These springs look like the ones that they use on the exhaust manifold only they are shorter and heavier. Has anyone else ran into these springs? And are you replacing them? Thanks!

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Jan 14 06:38:31 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Springs in the yoke
  Dave: I have done this to reduce driveline clunk, and once when I forgot to install the C Clip on the output shaft of an A4LD (worked well) Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Fri Jan 14 12:55:49 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Springs in the yoke
  This was a trick one guy used at the dealer I worked at to cure the bump after taking off from a stop. I have even seen superballs in them. I wouldn't replace or reuse them, I did have one transfer case torn up that I felt was caused by having springs in it. I think they were using valve springs.

  Cliff Westendorp
  cwestendorp@msn.com

FIX;

David Foster
transtech@metrolink.net

PROBLEM/FIX:

Problem/Fix: How many of you use flat washers between flex plate and TC? How many have actually measured a batch of 'typical' 3/8" flat washers for thickness? I've been checking them before use, I find them from 0.060 all the way to 0.082......which makes me wonder if maybe some converter run-out problems are from this source. If anyone wants to discuss it further, I guess we won't get thwacked TOO hard if we take it to -2.

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 105,000

Repair History: overhaul on 9-11-99

Work Completed: removed and disassemble

Summary: hello all i built this unit on 9-11-99 and came in today with 1st gear only. removed and desassembled found the band burn't and also 3-4 clutches. looks like it took some time to burn them up. any ideas the rest of the trans looks good. has about 3000 miles since i did the trans thanks terry..........

Terry Neuendorf
qualitytrans@earthlink.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Mon Jan 10 20:09:13 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Terry: I always remove the check ball capsule out of 2nd servo case casting and replace with a cup plug. That capsule is a lunch eater. Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Mon Jan 10 20:37:43 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Terry, I would guess that you have a leak in the 3rd accumulator checkball and capsule in the servo. Pressure is leaking into the case because the ball is not seating properly. Remove the ball and capsule and replace it with a parking pawl plug for a TH 350 or Th 400 and be sure to drive it all the way down into the case side of the servo. This is a common problem with this trans.You can also drill a .093 hole for band release as per the ATSG Bulletin. This will help get the band off faster.

  Donald Stone
  aaatrans@treco.net

• Date: Mon Jan 10 21:13:11 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Terry: That's been a common problem in the 700s. I had a lot of the 700s during the mid to late 80s do the same thing to me. The first thing that pops in my head is TV set too low. The second thing that pops in my head is to install a TransGo Shift Kit, but a leaking checkball capsule in the case will cause the same thing. If you already have it out, I would do both. Some builders like the commercial 9-pack clutch set up. My experience has been that if either the band's hydraulic circuit has a problem, or the 3-4 clutch circuit has a problem, they both go. This is because the same pressure that applies the 3-4 clutch in 3rd, pushes the 2-4 band off in 3rd. Since I've been using TransGo's Shift Kits, replacing checkball capsules when questionable, and using the 9-pack clutch, I haven't had any problems in the 3-4 clutch/2-4 band area. A Camaro is pretty light vehicle and they typically don't do a lot of towing. I don't think the cause of failure could be attributed to driver abuse. After you're done and on the final road test, make sure you can get a 2-1 downshift. If you can't, then you have a TV/Throttle cable relationship (adjustment) problem. If you can get a 2-1, then the TV is right. Good luck.

  Larry Bloodworth
  larry_b@certifiedtrans.com

• Date: Mon Jan 10 23:43:36 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Terry, I had one to do this to me last year. When I disassembled it, I found that I had put a solid teflon ring on the 4th apply piston. I didn't know when I built it that there was a problem since it was in the kit and I had no choice but to use it. When I put the kit in the sealing ring fit the piston and inside the bore tight. When I disassembled it, the piston and ring fell out without any resistance. My thoughts are: The band went first and filled the filter with material and the plugged filter took out the 3-4 clutches. If you haven't already, cut the filter open and see if it is plugged. I put a pressure gauge on each unit I install and have a chart printed to write them down on. Then when I road test it, I write down the minimum shift speeds and the max shift speeds up to 3rd gear. I staple the pressure chart and shift speed points to the hard copy and file it away. If the trans comes back I know what it was doing when it left and it gives me an idea as to where the problem may be. Good luck.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Tue Jan 11 01:45:45 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Hi Terry, To repeat what others have said, I would recommend the TransGo Shift Kit (JR). That is one of the main complaints that the kit addresses. Also, a leaking 3rd accum check valve can cause this. I usually just tap it down lightly after I clean the bal out to make sure it is seated but you could have a spec of rust or dirt in there now causing this. I don't like to do the cup plug deal only because I asked TransGo about it in the '80's and they were concerned about trapped air possible causing a problem. That being said, I've worked at a shop for years where that was standard procedure and I can't say for sure if the CB's with burned band/3-4's was caused by that. Make sure you follow the instructions on adjusting TV and don't do the Max cable/floor the peddle deal. That just bends things and makes it worse.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  transfixleo@netscape.net

• Date: Tue Jan 11 06:08:21 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Yes I would say check the capsule in the case. Richard Randleas

  Richard Randleas
  rrandlea@gwtc.net

• Date: Tue Jan 11 09:25:44 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  Terry- The ck.ball capsule in the case will cause this if it is leaking.Two other areas that you might want to inspect would be the accumulator piston pin holes(egg-shaped),and the stator shaft sleeve.If it has rotated,it will cause a burnt 2-4 band and burnt 3-4 clutches.I have not experienced a stator problem like this in quite some time,but it used to be fairly common.Almost every 700 that uses accumulator piston with rubber seals have the pin bores worn. Hope this helps. Cowbell

  Joey Campbell
  bccampbe@neocom.net

• Date: Tue Jan 11 09:40:48 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, burnt band and 3-4 clutch
  i agree with Don Stone , glenn a&s trans

  Glenn Morse
  tranny1@aol.com

FIX;

Terry Neuendorf
qualitytrans@earthlink.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 80k

Repair History: none by me, someone had overhauled it before, but cooler was plugged solid.

Work Completed: works good, used big Tru-Cool instead of radiator cooler

Summary: Just wondering about overfilling 700's. Can't recall ever seeing the subject discussed. Anyone have any thoughts?

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Jan 14 17:08:54 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, overhauled
  Hi Gary, I have never seen any reason to overfill a 700. But if you do be sure to add a hose to the vent and secure it over the trans on the drivers side so if it vents it does not spew onto the exhaust.

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Fri Jan 14 19:24:55 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, overhauled
  Gary, I overfill everyone 1 to 2 inches (Cold). Been doing it forever, lets keep those planets in the oil. Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Fri Jan 14 20:37:18 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, overhauled
  Gary, I am like you, I can't see any advantage of putting springs in a driveline... unless someone wanted to make the trans self destruct earlier than it could on it's own. Seems to me the load on the rear shaft would reek havock on the thrust washers. Just like building a trans with no endplay. I haven't seen one with them in and I wouldn't put them back in. Take care.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

FIX;

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 80k

Repair History: none by me

Work Completed: decided to seek info before tackling this one

Summary: This truck has a 3" suspension lift. Owner states that he has put 4 sets of dront axles in it in 15 months...they either 'pop' out of the retainer, or pull the CV joints apart. Any cure, except to take out the lift? BTW, the 'lift job' was kind of done 'half-way'......lower arms were not replaced, just the uppers.

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Thu Jan 27 18:46:14 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, front axles 'pop out'
  G, My thoughts, STAY AWAY. You are going to be looking for trouble on this one. Obviously, this is not a professional lift job. If this guy didn't want to spend the money on having a quality lift job done by professionals, do you think he's going to pay you for your time to get his axles right? You are going to do a lot of work on this only to cause yourself a lot of pain. I would send this one to a 4X4 shop. The wrong geometry brought about by a poor lift job means you will never get the axles to stay. Those 4X4 boys see that kind of stuff all the time. Just my thoughts.. Fernando Transmission Physicians Tampa, FL

  Fernando Rosales
  surflobstr@aol.com

• Date: Thu Jan 27 18:52:33 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, front axles 'pop out'
  I agree with Fernando. Some jobs are better sent down the road, unless you want to live with them forever. The "I can fix anything" mentality is tough to ignore sometimes, but this is one time you probably should let someone else worry with the problem. JMO

  Dale Snyder
  dalesnip@cs.com

• Date: Thu Jan 27 19:03:01 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, front axles 'pop out'
  Fernando and Dale; He is willing to spend what it would take to make it right.......but the 'poped' left axle has already torn up the seal area of the front diff. I think he's ready to take the lift out, but told him I'd investigate making it work. What's the trick? Longer axles? Drop the diff? G

  Gary Glaenzer
  debngary@irtc.net

• Date: Thu Jan 27 19:05:18 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, front axles 'pop out'
  Forgot to say that he bought the truck with this problem 'built in'. He KNOWS that it is not right, and is willing to pay to make it right, if possible.

  Gary Glaenzer
  debngary@irtc.net

FIX;

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 108K

Repair History: N/A

Work Completed: Tear Down

Summary: Question. This vehicle has oversized tires and 4" lift kit. Input planet destroyed and ring gear split in two places. My question is what causes this. I have not seen it happen in years. Am I dealing with abuse or what. Thanks, Jim, III

Jim III
stardust@frontiernet.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Feb 1 11:19:37 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Broken input planet & ring gear
  Jim III, You answered that for your self. Tires, lift kit, ABUSE!!!! Good luck. Get alot of money for this one.!!!!!!

  Paul Moore
  n8249b@aol.com

• Date: Tue Feb 1 11:26:53 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Broken input planet & ring gear
  JimIII, When I get a vehicle in with a set up like this, the first thing I look at is the Diff. gears, if they are stock than the setup will cause all kinds of problems. So if your going to warrant something like that he needs to know the Diff. gears need to be changed to take on the load of the tires and the lift kit.

  Steve Allbee
  steve@customtrans.com

FIX;

Jim III
stardust@frontiernet.net

QUESTION:

Mileage:

Repair History: Rebuildt trans.

Work Completed: Cannot get power to Trans. electrical conn. Cked. wires, fuses, brake switches, new lock up relay under dash.

Summary: Need wire diagram showing lock up system, seems like the lock up relay is not getting grounded. Where to from here?

Leo Weber
alextran@rea-alp.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Jan 18 10:57:57 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo,does this unit have a vacuum relay in the engine compartment?CJ of Canada

  CJ of-Canada
  info@transtechca.com

• Date: Tue Jan 18 14:17:36 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Cannot find a vacume relay under hood, has a electric relay under dash by steering colume, but thats new. On that three wire connector under vac booster,I have power to one wire with brake off, but none with cracked throttle or power on. Thanks.

  Leo Weber
  alextran@rea-alp.com

• Date: Tue Jan 18 17:29:34 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo, You have to check the power to these with the key on and throttle opened partly. These old 6.2's used a switch on the side of the injection pump to cut the power to the A terminal of the case connector at closed throttle and again at wide open throttle. It is the almost identical to the VRV's used on the 5.7 and 6.2 diesels with a 350 or 400 transmission except for the absence of vacuum lines. It is on the passenger side of the injection punp and held on with two small bolts. I have seen many of these fail in the past and on higher milage ones, I have seen the wiring harness insulation oil-soaked and bare spots shorting out so take a close look at it. If I remember right there were two connectors out of the harness. To find the right wire, disconnect both connectors at the top and the transmission harness and use an ohmmeter to identify the wire corresponding to the A terminal at the trans case connector harness and one of the upper two connectors,harness side. If you get continuity between it and ONE of the top wires then that is the power ( B+ ) wire for the TCC. Reconnect all the connectors and then test the identified wire with a test light or voltmeter. When working properly it should be hot with key on and the throttle opened slightly and go off again at WOT. If no voltage there then check the other wires in the same connector for a wire that is hot until the brake pedal is pressed. That will be the power to the switch for TCC. If that is present then the switch is bad and you will have to replace it. Sorry if I don't remember all the details exactly but it has been a very long time since I have had to mess with one of these old diesels but to the best of my memory this is correct. I used to have one of them switches around here somewhere so if I can find it maybe I can reply again and clarify more. Hope this helps and sorry for the long post.

  Robert Bruce
  robertlb@ev1.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 17:55:59 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo-Have you checked the "rotary switch"on the injector pump?Also,if memory is correct,there is a switch located on the right side engine head/block that will inhibit lock-up on early G.M. diesels. Hope this helps. Cowbell

  Joey Campbell
  bccampbe@neocom.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 18:07:19 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Hey Leo The one I did was same vehicle only 84,but it was diesel, go to the injector pump,when you crack throttle you need 12v on the frt wire,at least it was frt on the one I did. That 12v will pass through that three wire connector.I don't have a book just trace wires down.At the connector there will be one live key on,and one live with throttle cracked. The other one is supply to trans for lu.Check both sides of connector,I had to clean the poop out of it to get 12v on both sides.Did you check the gray wires at brake sw. Should have power both until you depress brake. On mine there was a relay at rear of intake like on a carb job,I installed vac pump on the engine to get it to work but it did not seem to effect lu line at all.Must have power when throttle is cracked.See Ya Harold

  Harold Field
  trblshtr@tdstelme.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 18:15:01 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  The switch ( located on the right side engine head/block ) that cowbell is refering to, I believe is the ' High Vacuum Switch ' that was only used on the 5.7 diesels without poppet valve type torque convertors. Also the diesel engines did not use vacuum switch located above the brake booster, that was on gas engines only.

  Robert Bruce
  robertlb@ev1.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 20:21:04 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo, Way back in 82 we had many problems with these diesels and no lock-up due to many reasons. The easiest way to get lock-up is to do it in the valve body. Install a GM part # 8642970 valve kit ( A74741VH ATC Number )in the valve body and the put a checkball into the snout of the TCC Soleniod. This should give you a hydraulic lock-up at about 50 MPH and if you want it lower you can clip a coil or 2 off the new valve spring that comes in the 8642970 kit. Believe me it works great and you will not need any 12 volt power supply to the trans.

  Donald Stone
  aaatrans@treco.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 20:32:18 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo, I would go to the injector pump and check for voltage on the green or blue wire at the TCC cutout switch. Don't worry with the other wires (yellow etc) as they are for the EGR system. This switch disables TCC at an idle and at WOT I think. So to test it turn the key on, and see if either the blue or green wire is hot with the throttle at say 1/3 throttle. The reason I say check both wires is the switch can be plugged up either way on some applications. Really the light blue wire should be the wire from the brake switch and the green goes to the A wire on the trans. The part # of the switch is 14066239 (I think). It fails quite often. We would always check it 1st because it is so easy to get to. We have found that the best way to set this switch is to adjust it to have voltage going to the A wire at about 1/8 throttle. It is a simple circuit, but not in most manuals.

  Dan Tucker
  transman@prodigy.net

• Date: Tue Jan 18 22:56:45 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo: Convert the unit over to hydraulically controlled lockup and be done with this headache. Sometimes it's cheaper to eat your pride than to find out the actual cause of the prolblem.

  Larry Bloodworth
  larry_b@certifiedtrans.com

• Date: Tue Jan 18 23:11:19 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo, If you look under the fuse panel, there should be a green wire with nothing connected to it. I have ran a b+wire to that connection and made them work. If nothing else works, you can put a TransGo® full shift kit in a 1982 and it will work for you. It comes with a ball that goes in the end of the tcc solenoid. The only problem you will find will be an engine kill on hard stop. Good hunting.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Tue Jan 18 23:29:00 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo, I just remembered something that may help. The "F" terminal in the ALDL connector is the tcc wire it makes it easier to check. Hope this helps.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Thu Jan 20 04:57:52 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No Lock Up
  Leo- The switch I was referring to is not the low-vacuum switch.It looks like a temp.sending unit,and I only remember seeing this on 2 or 3 early 6.2 diesels. Hope this helps Cowbell

  Joey Campbell
  bccampbe@neocom.net

FIX;

Leo Weber
alextran@rea-alp.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: mega

Repair History: none

Work Completed: none

Summary: customer wants to install a 700 Iam looking for a shaft that is shorter so his existing t-case will bolt up direct. I have cut and welded these before. just looking for a better deal. need a supplier.

Jeff Anglesey
oldtimer57@hotmail.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Dec 14 08:43:34 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, looking for shaft
  Jeff, I would have more faith in a spacer block between the case and adapter than cutting and welding the output shaft. Besides, I'm not sure there is that much spare room on the output shaft. Check out www.advancedadapter.com and order a catolog.

  Jimmy Taylor
  odie@gci.net

• Date: Tue Dec 14 10:49:53 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, looking for shaft
  Call American Eagle Tools at 602-966-5831 they make an output shaft for the 700 that is the same as the 350 4x4 shaft.

  Richard Smith
  mrtrans@worldnet.att.net

FIX;

Jeff Anglesey
oldtimer57@hotmail.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: 000

Repair History: install engine and rebuilt trans

Work Completed: none

Summary: I hope this thing hasn't gone in about 5 times, I am having quite a time to day. Any way to speak of this trans problem. no 4-2 or 3-2 after about 40mph. it will make a 4-3. this trans has a transco shift kit and a new s plate. has new pressure reg valve .500 tv boost valve. Iam thinking of stiffing up the tv valve spring. what about the tv limit valve? can some body help

Jeff Anglesey
oldtimer57@hotmail.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Wed Jan 5 12:20:36 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Hi Jeff Your problem is the geometry between the throttle lever and the kick down ratio arm in the transmission. You will have to look at the site and there is some great feedback on how to get the correct "throw" on your detent cable. There have been alot of folks here, myself included, that have tried and tried to make it work but the geomertry is the problem. Basically, the throttle is moving at a different rate than the detent arm in the transmission. -- Kit Lindsay Lindsay Transmission 1111 South Maguire Warrensburg, MO 660 747 2272 or 800 875 4588 lindsay2@sprintmail.com lindsaytransmission.com Serving on TRNi with the industry's best shops --------------------------------------------------------

  Kit Lindsay
  lindsay2@sprintmail.com

• Date: Wed Jan 5 13:56:17 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Hi Jeff, As Kit said, The geometry is important. You need to have 3/4 inch space between the center of linkage throw and where the t.v. hooks up. If it has a Holley on it, Sonnax makes a piece to corect problem. Also playing with different govs. might help with your problem.

  John Lovell
  ent@crosslink.net

• Date: Wed Jan 5 14:41:24 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Hi Jeff, I think everyone nailed it with the points about the TV geometry. I would just like to add that you need to match everything to the vehicle to get the shift points right. What is the axle ratio? If it is low and you don't have the right governor the trans may 'think' it is going too fast for a kickdown. Also, you need the correct throttle valves for all of the shift valves to get the proper timing of your part throttle shifts, up and down, as well as some of the other 'mystery' valves. I don't think going up on the TV plunger spring will get you far. Whenever you do a custom transplant, building the trans is just the beginning and unless the owner is willing to manually shift when he wants to go fast then it won't matter who's VB kit you use.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  transfixleo@netscape.net

UPDATE:

Jeff Anglesey
oldtimer57@hotmail.com

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Wed Jan 5 16:01:22 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  I think maybe you have the wrong valvebody gasket installed. It will cover an exhaust hole and drive you up the wall,,,,not to mention burn up the band if you keep trying to get it to work. Been there, done that,,, got the T-shirt! The hole I'm refering to is the little one next to the two check balls that are reight next to each other in the case.

  Darwin Upton
  darwank@usinternet.com

• Date: Wed Jan 5 16:42:51 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  I left the detent downshift checkball out of one once and had a similar problem, if not the same, it has been many years ago.

  Frank Choate
  jfranklinc@aol.com

• Date: Wed Jan 5 17:09:19 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Jeff: We went through a similar problem about 6 months ago. Here's what we learned that can be checked without pulling the valve body: Make sure you can get a minimum throttle 2-1 downshift. If you can, forget the TV adjustment and the possible associated linkage geometry problem(s). That is the first step.--->Make sure you can get a 2-1. THEN: After discussing our problem at length with TransGo, we were 'tutored' to making secondary governor weight and governor spring changes to get our vehicle working correctly. Ours was a morphodite, jacked-up 4X4 truck with monster tires, 4.56 gears, and a Corvette LT-1 engine. What a nightmare. We spent more time getting the transmission calibrated correctly than we did R&R'ing and building the unit! What a deal. :-( A lot of the information you need is in TransGo's 700 lessons. You might want to check it out and give them a call. They got me out of a big-time bind. Let me know if I, or anybody else in the group, can be of help.

  Larry Bloodworth
  larry_b@certifiedtrans.com

• Date: Wed Jan 5 18:37:01 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Jeff Late v.b. gaskets + early plate== no 3-2 or 4-2 kickdown, but will have 4-3 kickdown.

  Mike Quigley
  mikeq@netcom.ca

• Date: Wed Jan 5 22:16:16 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, kick down problem
  Jeff, If you left out or it moved while you where placing the front most checkball on the valve body side, you will loose your 3-2 and 4-2 downshift, just like what you are experiancing now. Also the MTV Down valve must be free. Oh and put a gauge on it too, find out what line pressure is doing.

  Jimmy Taylor
  odie@gci.net

FIX;

Jeff Anglesey
oldtimer57@hotmail.com

PROBLEM/FIX:

Problem/Fix: Here is the GM part # for the 3/8" cup plug that we use in the 2nd servo in place of the check ball capsule. For some reason our parts suppliers can never find it 8620318 Jim, III

Jim III
stardust@frontiernet.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: a lot

Repair History: other home worker "overhault" it about 1 year ago (has really unsatisfactory feeling, slipping, binding and all the other great feelings) first loss 3rd and 4th then come in for no move

Work Completed: found some mistakes of the home worker not related to this problem found broken rotor and slide and missing rotor guide pressure relief free to move TV boost ,391"

Summary: What can create the force to broken the rotor in 4 pieces and guide in two? Is it possible if the pump halfs are over torqued so the slide stucks? Thanks a lot in advance for all thinkings! Rosi germany

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

RESPONSES;

UPDATE:

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Mon Feb 7 18:09:28 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, broken pump rotor and slide
  Hi Rosi, This is common on 700R4s. In fact, I saw one just last week with the same damage. They parked the Blazer and when they started it and went to leave it wouldn't move. What I'm saying is there is usually no warning. As far as why it happens, I am sure someone else could give you better reasons. Transgo makes "no break" vane rings for the pump for high rpms. Also, I assume worn bushings, pump contamination, and converter runout contribute to the problem. In your case, I bet the customer was running high rpm's in second gear.

  Daniel Wills
  danwills@mindspring.com

FIX;

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

PROBLEM/FIX:

Problem/Fix: Hi group! In a lot of 700 I installed the 3-4commercial pack with good results. TCS recommend for me to use high capacity friction plates for this clutch pack. They tell that many rebuilder prefer it as a equal or better and cheaper 3-4 fix. What is your experience with this stuff? Thanks in advance to all. Rosi germany

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

QUESTION:

Mileage: lots

Repair History: This unit was installed a year ago by another shop, customer was told it was a 'GM rebuilt'.

Work Completed: Replaced with stock unit, vehicle is gone

Summary: OK.....I was dismantling this unit to rebuild for stock. Model stamp 9YL088 (??????) Other curiosities found during tear down: 1) three orificed cup plugs in (a) lo-rev piston feed; (b) governor return; (c) rear hole in 3/4 accum bore 2) small (light-weight) orange spring between servo cover and 4th piston 3) Check ball (5/16) in solenoid snout 4)It appears to have a transgo kit in the T.V. bore, can see the tiny spring at end of plunger. 5) trans-tec gaskets 6) unit has 'Type 5' wiring, which was wrong for the vehicle, but internal harness plug was unhooked. 7) early style input sprag. 8) no aux VB 9) small 'tit' of casting in the TV exhaust ball space (assume to prevent accidental installation of a ball there) I've already made the decision to scrap this case and VB (don't care to unravel puzzles )but just curious as to what brand shift kit may have used these mods. Or was this a 'factory reman', with the orificed plugs (but why are they in there???) The date-code stamp is identical in size and letter shape to a factory one, and there are remains of the original underneath (but not readable).

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Feb 11 18:41:05 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, curious about this unit
  GG I rebuilt a 700 years ago that had the restricters in the gov feed hole and Lo/Rev hole. At the time I was rather new at rebuilding let alone rebuilding 700s, but I do recall them being there. Are the ones you are talking about aluminum sleeves that are pressed in? These were, and if I recall, mine had not been Shift Kitted. Hope this helps, have a good weekend:-)

  Don Oremus
  dkoremus@execpc.com

• Date: Fri Feb 11 18:48:35 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, curious about this unit
  Don; The restrictor wasn't in the gov FEED hole (the one that takes the screen, but in the return hole (nearest the side of the case). This is truly curious....why would they be there.......they are definitely after-market....it looks like they were put in with a 20 pound hammer and a 3/8" bolt as a driver......

  Gary Glaenzer
  debngary@irtc.net

• Date: Fri Feb 11 18:50:37 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, curious about this unit
  Gary, That model number is for a '82 model trans ( first year ). They had the tit in the TV exhaust ball space because the ball was not used in the first models. I seriously doubt that this was a GM rebuilt unit.

  Robert Bruce
  robertlb@ev1.net

• Date: Fri Feb 11 19:01:31 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, curious about this unit
  GG Come to think of it, this may have had the sleeves in both governor holes, it was way too long ago for me to remember. It was definately something strange, for I have not ran into it since, which is good since the one I did was and early unit unsure of year though. I believe these aluminum sleeves where somewhere around a half of an inch long, I think :-)

  Don Oremus
  dkoremus@execpc.com

• Date: Sat Feb 12 02:08:10 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, curious about this unit
  Hello Gary! The 5/16 check ball in solenoid snout is recommend from TransGo and furnished in it's SysKoKal Kit. It's a great thing (in my opinion). Even if the electrical system fails it will make the TCC able to work correctly. But don't install ball if VB has no bore #13 or aluminium plugs in it. You will end up with all time TCC. I've already seen tranny with # looks like yours stamped on a piece of sheet metal rivet to the left rear side of the case. Originaly code was grind down. Inside was complete equally to the ATSG manuals. I think this is very close to GM specs. In your case I suspecting a "modified" GM rebuild. What can be the reason to put a spring between 4th piston and servo cover. All for now. Rosi germany

  Falk Rossberg
  falkrossberg@t-online.de

FIX;

Gary Glaenzer
debngary@irtc.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 230000KM

Repair History: none

Work Completed: only first & sec. gear / no engine braking

Summary: Is ther a particular reson for the hub to break abart from driver abuse. Theo from downunder

Theo Heindl
theobald@ozemail.com.au

RESPONSES;

• Date: Sun Feb 6 12:33:30 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Theo, if you are talking about the spline portion of the hub that the overrun clutches fit onto, then I would say premature failure. Either fatige or under tempered. I've never seen this portion broke before. If you are talking about the race being cracked or even broken in to multiple pieces, first thing that comes to mind is shifting into drive with high engine RPM's or while rolling backwards. Was the sprag flipped as well?

  Jimmy Taylor
  odie@gci.net

• Date: Sun Feb 6 12:36:45 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Hi Theo- I would think maybe the 200,000km's might have played a role in this failure. :-) How were the teeth on the input frictions?Maybe a slipping input sprag. Hope this helps Cowbell

  Joey Campbell
  bccampbe@neocom.net

• Date: Sun Feb 6 12:47:58 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Update The hub is broken where it splines to the sprag. The friction look burnt but not wiped. Just trying to establish the cause so it wan't become a CB. Theo from downunde

  Theo Heindl
  theobald@ozemail.com.au

• Date: Sun Feb 6 15:40:13 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Hey Theo, If the vehicle is operated in the OD position, the overrun hub will not do anything. As a matter of fact, you could leave it out and the customer would never know. I have only found one of these broken so far. It was on a Camaro that the guy would race and shift manually. There is one thing I think you might want to look into. If the person is driving this vehicle in the "3" position, the overruns will be on. When the trans shifts into third gear, if the band does not release, this will cause a bind in third and may eventually break the overrun hub. The only thing I can think of that will keep the band from releasing is a leak in the check ball capsule in the case. Personally, I cup plug all of the cases and throw away the capsule. I have never had a problem doing this and it's error proof as long as you put the cup plug way at the back of the case. If a bind in 3rd has been occurring, you will probably have burnt 3-4 clutches too. Other than a bind in 3rd with the shifter in the "3" position, I can see no possible way for the hub to break. It is never used while the selector is in OD. The only other thing I can think of is some kind of a cross leak occuring that would feed the overrun clutches in 4th. Overrun cannot be on in 4th. You may want to look inside the pump stator for wear. Leaking between the rings may cause this, although it's never happened to me. By the way, what is a Holden anyways? Where is it made? Fernando Transmission Physicians Tampa, FL

  Fernando Rosales
  surflobstr@aol.com

• Date: Sun Feb 6 16:42:58 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Theo, Fernando is correct in that the hub is only stressed when the overrun clutch is on. We see these hubs break in race car applications and we replace them with a heavy duty koline treated hub.

  Jim Eberhart
  eberhart@efortress.com

• Date: Sun Feb 6 23:41:21 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Hi Theo, How much power does that lil ole 3.8 have? Are you talking about the low overrun, or the coast overrun? I have seen abuse cause a lot of problems on 700's but never the coast overrun clutch hub. I suspect a faulty part here. However, I have seen several of the low overrun clutch hubs busted and the support and the case from abuse. Take care.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

UPDATE:

Theo Heindl
theobald@ozemail.com.au

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Mon Feb 7 14:48:37 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Brocken overrun clutch hub
  Theo We have come across this problem quite a lot and to this day there seems to be no reason for this to happen maybe we in Australia are harder on vehicles then most. Formin our rebuild guy has fixed plenty and advised that this may not ever happen in the same vehicle again as to why we are still at the end of that dark automatic tunnell

  John Tate
  autots@tpgi.com.au

FIX;

Theo Heindl
theobald@ozemail.com.au

QUESTION:

Mileage: 20,000 km

Repair History: Customer (another shop) installed this 4cyl Perkins diesel & 700 trans, unit came in first time with improper TV arm ratio setup & trans smoked. Begged us to help him (my first mistake) we rebuilt trans & tv problem was corrected. All was well for 2ooo km & lost lockup.... fluid smelled. Pulled trans & clutches all ok, but TCC is burn't, repalced pump & installed lo stall torque & all was well again for 1500 km & guess what no TCC operation. I am not taking any responsibility for this mismatched set up, now he wants me to build it with no lockup. I have info from Steve Younger seminar years back on building "de-lock" 7oo unit. My question is has anyone done this & does it work ??. This engine is about 120 HP only rev's to 2400 rpm but has a very low power band, final drive is 3:73 ratio.

Work Completed: None

Summary: Will this setup work or are we setting ourselves up again, he had prevous vehicle basically same setup with 350 trans & drove it for 2 years but top speed was 80 km (50 mph).

Ken Buehler
kbuehler@freespace.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Nov 30 21:10:03 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  Ken, You can bypass the lock-up on the 700 by installing the Transgo CCV-7 valve kit that you install in the pump and remove the converter clutch regulator valve.There are some warnings associated with the kit and it will explain it when you buy the kit.I have never had any problems installing the kit. This kit then opens up lube oil without having to obtain lock-up. I have done it on many racing 700's with no problem. As far as your problem with the converter burning up it would seem that you either have a problem with the pump cover, stator, cooler or an electrical problem that will not allow the lock-up solenoid to operate properly.

  Donald Stone
  aaatrans@treco.net

• Date: Tue Nov 30 22:21:55 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  Don: I've seen that no-lockup kit from TransGo. One of my guys ordered one and it has been sitting on the shelf for a long time. I've been afraid to use it because I have always associated a no-lockup condition in a 700 as a slow, sure death. Could you fill us in on how a street 700 can survive without lockup? I, as well as other members are interested. Thanks in advance.

  Larry Bloodworth
  larry_b@certifiedtrans.com

• Date: Wed Dec 1 01:37:33 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  Hi Ken, TransGo does make a Non-lock valve for what you describe but I personally wouldn't use it for what you are trying to do. I would rather see you install the JR Shift Kit (or full) to address the TCC problem. Even though it has fairly low gears you will still be operating in the range and power band that will generate heat in the converter if it isn't locked up. You may be tradeing one failure for another. Leo

  Leo Schneggenburger
  transfixleo@netscape.net

• Date: Wed Dec 1 08:46:17 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  We have been building non-LU 700's since they first came out the "trick" is to use a converter that has a stall speed that is lower than the cruise rpm @60/70mph. That keeps the converter out of multiplication and very little heat. The manufacturers found that with a LU converter they can build a sloppy converter, loose tolerances etc. not be overly concerned about the stall because the efficency is gained back with the LU clutch applied. Also high/loose converters don't load the engines and they are easier to get to pass the emissions standsrds. It is possible that a vehicle with a lower than stock stall converter may not pass a smog test in states that use a loaded dyno to check emissions in CA. where we are at, they use dyno's I don't know if they use the loaded capabilitie or not.If you feel you have to use a converter with a LU clutch in this application, a low stall converter will help because the turbine speed and impeller/pump speed are closer and the stress is lower when the LU clutch comes on. Remove the check ball capsule from the front of the input shaft.

  Greg Boehm
  greg@valtran.com

• Date: Thu Dec 2 04:47:56 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  Larry, The idea of the CCV-7 kit is to open the lube curcuit thus relieving the overheating condition. In Gil's kit it says to remove the lock-up o-ring and use an original lock-up converter. We don't do that. We remove the checkball from the input shaft, leave off the o-ring as it is not needed and we install a torque converter without a clutch which most call a test torque. Basically we have full flow to the cooler all the time and I have never had one overheat yet even in Chevy Suburbans towing a race car 200 or more miles. If you contact Trans-Go they can fill you in on more info.

  Donald Stone
  aaatrans@treco.net

• Date: Thu Dec 2 22:47:13 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, Repeated TCC clutch failure
  Hi Ken, I am like the idea of omitting the lock-up clutch. In my limited experience, I have seen trucks that were overloaded severely loose lock-up. I would thing the load capacitie of the clutch is limited. Also the diesel could be hammering the dampner.

  Daniel Wills
  danwills@mindspring.com

FIX;

Ken Buehler
kbuehler@freespace.net

PROBLEM/FIX:

Problem/Fix: 77 CHEV Change over TH 350 to 700R4. The 700r4 that will be installed has a one wire lock up system. 1. Is there such a item as wiring torque converter lock up kit that can be installed, when making this kind of change over? 2. And Can someone tell me what to do or where I can get a wiring diagram? Thanks Walt

Walt's Trans
waltg@relia.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: new motor

Repair History: pulled unit complete rebuild, fades in and out of lock up on slightest incline.

Work Completed: pulled valve body, changed lockup spring, still does same thing. Also hydralickly locked. same thing. All electrical put back in and worked for a week, now i am back to square one.

Summary: has anyone ever had this problem and know of a fix? Please help having hard time with this one. Thanks, Justin jmpjdp@nque.com

Justin Painter
jmpjdp@nque.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Feb 25 03:00:45 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, will not hold in lock up on interstate,
  Hi justin, Only have 88 up 700s(with aux valve body)in Aust.I overhauled one a couple of weeks ago and used a Gil reprogramming kit(NoYoYo/SysKoKaL Kit)one of the many things it fixes is the lock up jumping out to easy and lock up to early.I remember that for non aux valve bodies pre 88 you could modify the lock up so it was not dependant on the electrics ,you actually plug the lock up solenoid with a ball so it does not work and then do other mods. There was also some mods for diesels powered vehicles.There's quite a few choices depending on the application regarding valve body springs/governor springs etc but it is easy to install.I was happy with the improvements it made to the unit I overhauled.I think I payed about $100 for the kit (aussie money)properly about $25 in your land.Hope this helps you out. Regards Kim PS SK700-D was the part No

  Kim Walton
  citytrans@webscene.com.au

• Date: Fri Feb 25 10:24:25 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, will not hold in lock up on interstate,
  Hello Justin! I would give the tranny a converter clutch TV valve with a smaller working diameter for the mod up TV. Other thing is making the spring from the tv up valve little heavier. But the second thing will also change the shift timing of the gears. I didn`t believe that can fix your problem with the TCC spring. The early units have lot timing problems and a SysKoKal kit will fix it. What think other members about this? Good luck! please give me info if you try it.

  Falk Rossberg
  falkrossberg@t-online.de

FIX;

Justin Painter
jmpjdp@nque.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: 331,000

Repair History: rebuilt about 2500 miles back all upshifts are good and at the right time

Work Completed: coming back wed.

Summary: around 70 -80 mph if you accelerate fairly hard it will shift back and forth between 4th and 3rd. It will keep doing this until you let off or kick it all the way down. Has anyone run into this before? Thanks Archie

Arch Haymaker
archie@ionet.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Mon Mar 13 19:26:47 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, shifts4-3 4-3 4-3
  Arch, Ran into this many times and changing the governor fixed it. Be sure to check your governor bore as well.

  Donald Stone
  aaatrans@treco.net

• Date: Mon Mar 13 20:28:50 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, shifts4-3 4-3 4-3
  Hi Arch, I think I would look at the gov gear on this one. If it is loose, it could cause what you are describing. Just guessing.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Mon Mar 13 21:33:00 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, shifts4-3 4-3 4-3
  Arch. If the governor checks out ok, try either a Transgo or Fairbanks 3-4 full throttle upshift valve.

  Jim Eberhart
  eberhart@efortress.com

• Date: Tue Mar 14 05:31:53 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, shifts4-3 4-3 4-3
  Hi Arch There is a procedure for drilling the throttle sleeve and plugging an existing hole to move the oil feed to a different location and I did it once to a Blazer that was doing the same thing yours is doing. I have been looking for the paper with the pix on it but I can't find it. If you post me your fax number I will send it to you as soon as I locate it. Kit

  Kit Lindsay
  lindsay2@sprintmail.com

• Date: Tue Mar 14 11:10:03 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, shifts4-3 4-3 4-3
  Hi Arch I have the info you want. Send me your fax number. Thanks! -- Kit Lindsay Lindsay Transmission 1111 South Maguire Warrensburg, MO 660 747 2272 or 800 875 4588 lindsay2@sprintmail.com lindsaytransmission.com Serving on TRNi with the industry's best shops --------------------------------------------------------

  Kit Lindsay
  lindsay2@sprintmail.com

FIX;

Arch Haymaker
archie@ionet.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 150,000

Repair History: Rebuilt about a year ago. Normal rebuild.

Work Completed: Came back with the inner low/rev sprag race broke, rear carrier broke, metal, etc. Rebuilt, pressure tested, new pump, converter, etc. Has a delay in rev.

Summary: We have a 1988 full size Chevy with a 4l60 (700-R4). Came in (came back rather) with the rev sprag, rear carrier, etc. broke. We rebuilt it. After we rebuilt it there was a slight delay in rev and when you accelerated rapidly, it would bang in. Like maybe one unit is not applying at first. We seem to have no rev boost at idle. At 1000 RPM pressures are normal. Min and max TV pressures good. It's just at idle that we do not have any rev boost. We have replaced the pump with one that has a .030" larger TV boost valve and a .010" larger rev boost valve. Pump rotor to face clearance is about .002" versus .005" in the old pump. New pump even has an inner pump spring where the old one didn't. We thought all this would fix it but nooo. We just don't have any boost at idle. At 1000 RPM all is ok. Idle speed is 500 in drive. Is that normal? Any ideas? Thanks,

Dell Wellons
woodchpr@worldnet.att.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Wed Mar 15 17:24:01 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  Hi Dell, Unless the pump is spectacular, 500 RPM isn't enough. Send the readings (all) at: idle, fast idle (12-1500), and fast idle with max TV. preferably cold and hot. Do you have an aluminum piston in rev? If so, do you have an orifice in the piston? How much clearance in the packs? Does it happen when cold too? How does it operate otherwise?

  Leo Schneggenburger
  lschneg1@rochester.rr.com

• Date: Wed Mar 15 18:02:01 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  Hi Dell, I would speed up the idle so you are around 750 to 800 RPM in gear. At 500 the pump volume might be to low to give you any boost pressure. Also when you replaced the pump you didn't by chance use a stator with the wrong size apply hole for the reverse input drum did you. If your stator and the reverse input drum both have the small apply hole I would think that this could cause what you are experiencing.

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Wed Mar 15 18:43:07 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  I agree that 500 RPM isn't enough, but since it's computer controlled I'm not sure I should attempt to change it unless I know for sure what it should be. Leo, I don't have all the readings. I'm at home now, but best that I can remember at 1000 RPMs all pressures were normal at max TV and min TV in all ranges, i.e. PRNDL2 etc. It's only at idle that there is no rev boost. Yes it is an aluminum piston. I'm not sure about the orifice. That is my next step. Clutch clearance is good. Cold, it works great and all other shifts are great. Dave, I'm not sure I can get by with cranking the idle up to 800 RPMs. Although, I'd like to. Thinking about going to the old style rev input piston, elinimating the orifice deal, using solid sealing rings, etc. Not sure about the orifice in the stator support, but the one we took out had the large hole. Thanks. We'll look for more tomorrow.

  Dell Wellons
  woodchpr@worldnet.att.net

• Date: Wed Mar 15 18:51:32 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  do you have a miss match of feed holes drum to stator cant have two small holes one or the other has to be a big hole otherwise rev input clutches dont come on till you rev motor, assuming this isnt a 1993 model which has rev orifice and checkball in vbody and plate instead.........

  Donald Day
  trnsmaster@home.com

• Date: Wed Mar 15 21:01:53 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  Dell, This sounds like the wrong pump / Reverse Input drum combination. The '88 model had a small feed hole in the Reverse Input drum and a large feed hole in the pump stator. Like the others have said, if you changed the pump to one with a small hole then it would not supply enough volume of fluid to feed the small hole in the drum with enough fluid to overcome the bleed hole in the aluminum piston. There is an orficed cup plug availabe from most parts suppliers that will reduce the size of the bleed hole also. They come in bags of 10 so be careful if ordering. We wanted 20 and ended up with 200 the first time we ordered them. Just for reference there are three different combinations: 1. The early reverse input drums with a steel piston has a large square feed hole / small hole in pump tower. 2. The 87 up reverse input drums with an aluminum piston has a small round feed hole / large hole in pump tower. This drum was used in the early 4L60E's also. 3. The later 4L60E reverse input drum with an aluminum piston has a large square hole / small hole in pump tower. They will interchange fairly well as long as you keep the feed holes in the pump tower and rev drum matched properly. Big to small or Small to big. I hope this helps.

  Robert Bruce
  robertlb@ev1.net

• Date: Thu Mar 16 01:30:04 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  Hi Dell, That was a good point about the size of the orifice in the stator. Good place to look. As to idle setting, don't just crank up the base idle screw unless you are sure that the idle speed control (ISC)is set right. This is done by fully extending it and setting to spec (usually @900RPM) and then fully retracting it and setting the base idle screw to about what it is now. Perhaps the ISC is bad? I used to see it occasionally at the dealer. If you find that for example the stator fixes the delay, I would just advise the customer to have it properly set elsewhere.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  lschneg1@rochester.rr.com

• Date: Thu Mar 16 03:57:02 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  Hi Leo, Isn't the ISC just a controlled vacuum leak? ( More leak faster idle ) Why not get the idle set first even if you have to pull off a vacuum line temporary, to see if the problem with reverse is gone. That would be a lot faster than pulling the unit. If the idle is set ( by Jury Rig ) and the trans works, just take it to a general repair shop to have the ISC checked out. ( JMO )

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Thu Mar 16 07:34:27 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Delays in Rev - no boost at idle
  dell, I checked the spec book and curb idle speed for a 5.0l is 500 rpm with parking brake set in drive.I think you need to be addressing your no boost in rev.

  Ron Geddert
  dadstran@home.com

FIX;

Dell Wellons
woodchpr@worldnet.att.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: ?

Repair History: Overhaul in progres

Work Completed: n/a

Summary: I have ATSG manual, they recommend reducing size of bleed orifice in piston, they say with "Techpack" p/n 77761c. I can't get one of these here in Denmark !! But what size is the orifice after modification ?? I will plug it and then drill !!

Bent Pedersen
blp@post7.tele.dk

RESPONSES;

• Date: Sat Mar 18 11:24:25 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, Reverse input piston mod.
  Bent; ATSG recommends drilling and tapping the original bleed hole for a set-screw. Opposite this hole is one that doesn't go all the way through. Drill this one 1/16" 0.062".

  Gary Glaenzer
  debngary@irtc.net

FIX;

Bent Pedersen
blp@post7.tele.dk

PROBLEM/FIX:

Problem/Fix: Awhile back there was questions about the size of the orifice plug. For years I have been using delco #86311146 & nothing else just install & forget it.

Jeff Balak
kdhtrans55@aol.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: unknown

Repair History: Hi group! The car was factory equipped with the 700R4. Someone have taken a swap to 400. Looks like professional job.

Work Completed: The 400 is now worn out and the customer wants to get the original tranny. To do this I have a 700 in stock. Came out a 305" from ´87. plate AA, auxl.body, last steel reverse input piston

Summary: What changes in tranny and also in car must be taken to make the swap also a professional job. (Will install TransGo syskocal kit, alto 3-4 commercial, band kevlar) Any suggestion would be nice. Thanks and best regards Rosi germany

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

RESPONSES;

• Date: Sat Dec 11 08:07:16 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, swap TH400 to 700R4
  I would find a diesel gov. for it.

  John Lovell
  ent@crosslink.net

• Date: Sat Dec 11 22:27:05 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, swap TH400 to 700R4
  Falk, I would remove the aluminum plug in the TCC shift valve line up, and install a bushing, valve, spring, and shift valve in it's place. If you leave the bushing in it will apply TCC as soon as you hit 2nd gear. You will also need to remove the Vacuum regulator switch on the injector pump and replace it with the factory TCC CUTOUT SWITCH (14066239).

  Dan Tucker
  transman@prodigy.net

• Date: Sat Dec 11 22:28:54 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, swap TH400 to 700R4
  Falk, You will also need to ground the TCC solenoid "D" wire in the pan.

  Dan Tucker
  transman@prodigy.net

• Date: Tue Dec 14 15:44:41 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, swap TH400 to 700R4
  Hi Falk, The others seem to be covering everything pretty well. I would suggest not using a kevlar band, though. A good used paper band would be your best bet. Leo

  Leo Schneggenburger
  transfixleo@netscape.net

FIX;

Falk Rossberg
falkrossberg@t-online.de

QUESTION:

Mileage: 80000

Repair History: none, at another shop that I do plenty of work for.

Work Completed: replaced shift cable, frayed. disconnect wiring and drives fine. turn off cruise control and converter works fine. as soon as you turn the cruise on the converter goes in and out until you let up on throttle or take out the cruise, will do this at any speed, seems to do it worse at higher speed. Does have a code for EGR.

Summary: could this be a ground problem? Faulty cruise.

Steve Allbee
steve@customtrans.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Fri Mar 10 12:59:47 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, converter clutch shuddle w/cruise on
  Hi Steve, Read the old post in feedback > In and out of L/U < under the 700 section. I fought one similar to yours, never did fix it ( sorry ) But there is a lot of feedback on the data base. Is this factory or aftermarket cruise?

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

FIX;

Steve Allbee
steve@customtrans.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: unknown

Repair History: 2 yrs on rebuild

Work Completed: tore down for inspection due to metalic fluid,would make a nice paint color.

Summary: Was wondering what causes the sun shell and rev drum tabs to spread apart scraping case. Any Ideas? Thanks Joe

Joe Zahn
rjzahn@usaor.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Sun Nov 21 13:00:59 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Joe: It may be a bad input sprag. They can check good on the bench, but not hold in the vehicle. When this happens, you most often experience a 4-neutral condition on kickdown. Sand the inner and outer races. Replace the sprag. (Not to mention the drum/shell) It's a done deal.

  Larry Bloodworth
  larry_b@certifiedtrans.com

• Date: Sun Nov 21 13:06:48 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Joe, What you are seeing is the classic input sprag failure. It happens when you get a 4-3 or 4-2 part or full throttle downshift and the sprag fails to re-apply. Causes are either worn sprag elements or the elements gliding on fluid. The former requires a simple replacement, the latter can need a little more attention. The old sprags used a smooth surface on the races where the sprag rides. The later races have very fine grooves cut into the face. The grooves are there to provide a track for the fluid to move through and allow the sprag to apply. You can take 180 - 200 sand paper and sand the outer race to make your older sprags work like the newer ones. Often just changing the sprag is all you need to do.

  Jimmy Taylor
  odie@gci.net

• Date: Sun Nov 21 13:38:21 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Joe, no definative answer has never show up for the spreading problem. Everyonce in a blue moon it just shows up.. If you have silver paint fluid, please change the torque converter. Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Sun Nov 21 15:07:01 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Joe, Sounds like classic abuse to me. Does it belong to a kid. That does not imply age. Good luck.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Thu Nov 25 07:48:08 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Hi Joe- My bet is the input sprag is bad.2.8's seem to have this problem more frequently than other engines w/700-R4...JMO Hope this helps Cowbell

  Joey Campbell
  bccampbe@neocom.net

• Date: Tue Nov 30 17:53:24 PST 1999
  Subject: 700R4, no shift due to striped gov. gear
  Joe Don`t know if this will help or make any sense but I`ve noticed drum & shell spread usually occurs on trans with high stall convertors & input sprags that break break loose at high RPMS. As in S10 ? maybe centrifugal force? Is that 2.8 instead of 3.8?

  Barrie Bowlin
  bowlinauto@webtv.net

FIX;

Joe Zahn
rjzahn@usaor.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: lots

Repair History: rebuilt 6yrs ago, burned 3-4s

Work Completed: fresh overhaul

Summary: Fix data base talks about new throttle valves and sleeves curing this concern, any ideas or fixes? thank you ..Joe

Joe Zahn
rjzahn@usaor.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Thu Jan 6 16:13:50 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Hi Joe, The early 700's had horrible shift timing. Get a TransGo Shift Kit, the full one not the JR. It will fix the timing problems as well as keep the clutches and band alive longer. You will love how it works.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  transfixleo@netscape.net

• Date: Thu Jan 6 20:46:31 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Joe, Put weaker springs in the gov. The rest of the shifts may be taylored with the tv cable. Good luck,

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Fri Jan 7 04:51:20 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  I'm with leo on this one. what we used to do on these was to make the 1-2 shift valve retainor pin accesable from the out side of the valve-body...then find a slightly heavier spring for the 1-2 shift valve and try it...if it still needed tweaking drop the pan pull the pin and try another spring. or just wimp out and put a shift kit in it. good luck Timmy

  Timothy Carney
  timjames@prodigy.net

• Date: Fri Jan 7 05:30:45 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Hey Joe I don't know about full blown SK,but I use the JR and it really does a good job,real nice shifts at all ranges,I was alittle hesitant about the fix on the sec piston and leaving out the lock ringon the first one,just do it.I also make sure I get the clearence down on the clutch paks. Have a nice day, See Ya Harold

  Harold Field
  trblshtr@tdstelme.net

• Date: Fri Jan 7 06:39:24 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Joe, I just finished a 700 in a suburban a week ago and it cost plenty, but to do these right you need to put in some parts, on a 700 I've never got away without a new rev input drum always warped, I put in the .500 boost sleeve and 10 vane pump. I always put in a sk jr kit, and you might want to call the dealer and make sure you have the right spacer plate, the diesel model I worked on last week had the wrong one along with the converter sol. I always put the 2-4 band as tight as I can get it, I add to the band pin (weld it) to a measurement of 5.10(I think), I'm at home so I don't have the info in front of me. But you should have a band movement of around .060. When you say early 1-2 shift, tell us what it is.

  Steve Allbee
  steve@customtrans.com

• Date: Fri Jan 7 06:47:28 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Hi Joe, You can address this by going to the governor springs to reset shift speed as mentioned, or try a lighter spring in the 1/2 shift valve, yes there is a larger boost valve available and we always install the .471 O.D. boost valve/sleeve kits part no. k61976c (ATC). Some have mentioned using the transgo kit both the complete kit k61908 or the Jr kit k61908j we use both. The larger kit for early units up to about 1985 and the Jr kit for later units along with the larger boost valve. We also install the sonnix servo release check valve. This may all seem like a lot and I saw earlier that some one called it whimpping out to use a valve body kit, but I have a personal opinion on this. I have been in shops where every one is to themselves as to what they do on each type rebuild and I have seen no consistancy on the finished product. If my name is going to be on a product I want it to be the way I think it aught to be. With all the varaibles out there in this game and with everyone and their uncle working on these things before you get it in your shop, you better set some standards for each type of transmission that comes into the shop. I even check all the important holes in the seperator plates to make sure no one has used a post hole digger to strengthen up a soft shift.JMO Richard Randleas Randleas Transmissions

  Richard Randleas
  rrandlea@gwtc.net

• Date: Fri Jan 7 11:07:17 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Joe, Try this -take your govenor, remove the gear,drill a 3/16 hole at the end put a 200 govenor spring in the hole so that the valve rests on it ,put the gear back on and install it.Not only will it make the 1-2 a little later,but you also fix a down shift clunk.CJ of Canada

  CJ of-Canada
  info@transtechca.com

• Date: Fri Jan 7 14:48:06 PST 2000
  Subject: 700R4, early 1-2 shift
  Joe, what you are probably feeling is a normal 2nd upshift around 8-10 mph.A 83 700r4 locks up normally after the 2nd shift, unless you have added a lockup valve kit, which will make it lockup after 3rd. 3rd gear comes in normally around 25-27 mph. solution 1 - It may not be locking up. solution 2 - clip 1 to 2 coils off the 2-3 shift spring to lower 2-3 shift.

  Jimmy Newman
  cttranny@aol.com

FIX;

Joe Zahn
rjzahn@usaor.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 100,000 plus

Repair History: n/a

Work Completed: rebuilding unit

Summary: I'm trying to install the hi-energy 3-4 clutch pack into the input drum. Evidently there is some difference between the 700's and the 4L60E'S, because I can't get the stackup right. I know that the steels are .106 thick, but I can't tell where the difference is. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Elliot

Elliot Walters
trnsmsn@aol.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Wed Apr 5 15:52:59 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, upgrading trans
  Hi Elliott, The five finger apply ring is shorter and you should use the solid pressure plates on top and bottom as they are part of the designs increased ridgidity to eliminate flexing of the pack.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  lschneg1@rochester.rr.com

• Date: Wed Apr 5 21:35:36 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, upgrading trans
  If you use a .125 bottom pressure plate out of an early 700, 4-.106 steels. 2 commercial .060.? steels together = .120. Use the original top pp and snap ring and you should have about .045 clearance. I put the 2- .060 steels together in the middle of the pack and reinstall the load springs. I have been doing this for years with no problems.I also always use the High energy Borg Warner frictions.

  Dale Blake
  dblake@telusplanet.net

FIX;

Elliot Walters
trnsmsn@aol.com

QUESTION:

Mileage: N\A

Repair History: N/A

Work Completed: N/A

Summary: I am in search of a reliable way to identify the cases. My employer has some gutted out cases, both 86 types, that may ,or may not, require auxiliary valve bodies. The Feed Back database was inconclusive. Any hints? TIA!

Randy Kanary
kanarys@zbzoom.net

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Aug 31 17:16:25 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  Randy. First see if you have the case cut out at the pump for the auxilary forward tube. Next look at the worm casting around the reverse feed. The auxiliary has a dam in the reverse worm tracking. You might want to look at a known aux case and a known non aux. case to see what I mean. After 1987 the cases had a moon shaped casting mark around the servo and the identification casting #'s are potruding out. These are easy to identify once you see what I mean. Hope this helps and watch out for the 1987's. They will burn you.

  Dale Blake
  dblake@telusplanet.net

• Date: Wed Sep 1 05:33:09 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  Randy, The auxiliary V/B didn't come out until 1987. If yours are 1986, they should be non-auxiliary.

  Chuck Reavis
  quui@aol.com

• Date: Wed Sep 1 07:36:10 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  Hi Randy, As chuck pointed out,the aux vb model did'nt come out till `87,however sometimes stuff gets swapped so ya still gotta know.If it is an aux vb model it will have a check ball and capsule at the low/rev piston feed. Visable at the rear of the channel casting of the case. Note that often the checkball falls out of the capsule but the capsule will still be there.

  Clayton Allen
  claydo1@aol.com

• Date: Wed Sep 1 09:02:59 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  Hi Randy! Check the pump gasket surface for a D4 oil hole (it´s the first left from the band anchor pin) These channel goes to governor feed (rear the second of right if you look in driving direction under the car) If there is a hole -->it´s non auxl. / no hole --> auxl. is needed. Hope you understand "german english" Hope this helps you. Rosi

  Falk Rossberg
  falkrossberg@t-online.de

• Date: Wed Sep 15 17:52:50 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  Thank you ,all, for your input! I think this thread can now be closed, as Fixed!

  Randy Kanary
  rj@kanarysweb.com

• Date: Wed Sep 15 21:54:23 PDT 1999
  Subject: 700R4, How to identify cases,W\, W\O aux.
  700r4's with aux valve bodys can be idientified on the exterior buy the casting seam on the cooling line side..it looks like a long half moon

  Lenard Lof
  alltech.transmissions@usa.net

FIX;

Randy Kanary
kanarys@zbzoom.net

QUESTION:

Mileage: 87043

Repair History: Came in with no 4th Gear Rebuilt trans replaced 2-4 band & reverce input drum still no 4th gear

Work Completed: Check oil presure at idle 105 psi

Summary: 1-2 shift are fine 2-3 shift is slow about 35 mph at very little throttle then no 3-4 shift. It dose not have a neutral condition,just no 3-4 shift, But if you lift off the throttle at 60 mph it feels like it is in neutral then when you get back on the throttle it is in 3rd

John Sines
johnbsines@compuserve.com

RESPONSES;

• Date: Tue Apr 4 10:04:51 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  This trans will free wheel in 1st, 2nd, and third if it has not upshifted on a lift throttle. Your idle line pressure is too high, indicating probably a hung throttle valve, which would also account for no 4th gear.

  Frank Choate
  jfranklinc@aol.com

• Date: Tue Apr 4 16:47:58 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hi John, Fix the high line and you will probably fix the no 4th. How is the response? If it seems normal other than the high minimum I would start by looking at the TV cable setting/connection.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  lschneg1@rochester.rr.com

• Date: Tue Apr 4 18:27:04 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Sounds like a possible govenor problem or valve body, I would check to see if govenor it faulty or if govenor pressure is leaking by in the bore, It all most seems that govenor pressure isn't high enough or unable to overcome the throttle pressure in either case check the TV valve as well.

  Keith Bruce
  kwbruce@telusplanet.net

• Date: Tue Apr 4 21:32:38 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John, I would put a gauge on it and when it is supposed to shift to 4th I would watch for a needle flick or a drop in pressure. If it doesn't do either, then it may be a stuck 3-4 shift valve. That's where I would start checking. Good luck.

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Tue Apr 4 21:47:36 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  if you do not have a neutral condition then the shift valve is not shifting. did you leave a switch out. I have also seen the cup plug missing on top of the 3-4 suttle valve. it will also make 4th disappear. missing or cut seal on the servo piston in the cover. hope this helps

  Jeff Anglesey
  apautooldtimer57@aol.com

• Date: Wed Apr 5 07:12:53 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John, Seems to me that if you put the piston in the cover backwards that could cause a no 4th.

  Steve Allbee
  steve@customtrans.com

UPDATE:

John Sines
johnbsines@compuserve.com

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Wed Apr 5 18:02:56 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  john i had one do the same thing,gov looked perfect,eventualy replaced it and it was fixed.could not find problem with gov,got rid of it.hope it helps

  Kenneth Bracy
  transhop@localnet.com

• Date: Wed Apr 5 21:51:59 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hi John: Question: Does the pressure stay at 105# no matter what? Very Important. Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Thu Apr 6 00:22:31 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John, Did you put the fail safe ball in the trans? It is the one the little wicker bill pushes off the seat when the tv cable adjusted properly. I have seen some of those linkages that didn't have the wicker bill and if the ball is there it is in fail safe because there is nothing to unseat the ball. Good luck Roger

  Roger Pryor
  whizwheel@aol.com

• Date: Thu Apr 6 01:37:12 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hi John, Pull the pan and remove the TV plunger. Use an extension to reach in and push on the TV valve to make sure that it is free. IF OK Put the pan back and run the trans with a gauge on line. You should see low pressure. If you still see minimum of 105# then pull the trans and see why the pump slide is sticking. If it was remaned look for a radious along the outer edge.

  Leo Schneggenburger
  lschneg1@rochester.rr.com

• Date: Thu Apr 6 04:35:20 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hello John! I would try a different set of the boost valves. A time ago I have had a problem with a too long TV boost valve. The effect was too little space for the PR valve to move. This was similar to yours too high line. Good luck! Rosi germany

  Falk Rossberg
  falkrossberg@t-online.de

• Date: Thu Apr 6 06:50:09 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hello John! In the original post you wrote ´88 PU and 6.5 diesel. Do you mean 6.2 or is it a swap. If so maybe there is a problem with the TV linkage geometry. Disconnect the cable and check for min TV line pressure. Does the press. increase with rpm (w/o TV cable)? Is there a difference hot and cold? What about the other readings? Rosi germany

  Falk Rossberg
  falkrossberg@t-online.de

UPDATE:

John Sines
johnbsines@compuserve.com

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• Date: Thu Apr 6 20:44:53 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John,did you add a larger boost valve? What kind of torq convertor do you have in there? Did you also check to see if you maybe forgot to or cut the sealing ring on 4th servo piston? What did you change ? CJ of Canada

  CJ of-Canada
  info@transtechca.com

• Date: Thu Apr 6 22:11:13 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John: When you get this back in the car and you still do not have 4th. Then remove the governor and stick some pieces of vacumn hose in the governor to block the weights OUT. This should give you a forth gear start. Lets find out if we have 4th. For now, check the governor screen, I personally leave them out. Check the governor passages (I have found errant check balls in them). I do have a question. Upon initial tear down, were the 3-4 clutches burned, also are they burned or charred now? One time while experimenting, I block the 3-4 shift valve to the at rest position. The symptoms were the same as yours. If I let off the gas, it was like I was in neutral, then reapply the gas I would be in 3rd. I seriously doubt that all 3 of your VB's would have the same problem. One last thing to check is the sideways movement of the governor. I prefer around 1/16", you can just tap on the governor cover to tighten it (too much movement and you start blocking off passages. Good Luck and get back with clutch info. Jim, III

  Jim III
  stardust@frontiernet.net

• Date: Fri Apr 7 02:17:02 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  While its on the bench, check the pivot pin for the pump slide, if its worn, its leaking reducing pressure. Also check the line bias valve in the valve body very closely. I like to check my pumps, expecially rebuilt ones by bolting it together with the slide in place without the springs and shake to see if the slide rattles as it it should. I still think this hi line pressure is your problem and its acting as you are heavy on the throttle and won't get 4th gear until way over the speed limit.

  Frank Choate
  jfranklinc@aol.com

• Date: Fri Apr 7 03:40:31 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hi John, It still sounds like your pump slide is sticking 105 psi is just to high. Take the pump slide put it in the pump without the return springs the veins or the rotor, torque the pump half's. Now shake the pump the slide must rattle around. I think that you have a warped pump and the slide is not able to go through it's full travel, The pressure moves it to high line and the warp keeps the springs from being able to move the slide back to base pressure. Dave Foster

  David Foster
  transtech@metrolink.net

• Date: Fri Apr 7 05:08:39 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  Hi John, High line pressure could be caused by a stuck slide. I heard sonnax makes a tool to check for that. Ask your vendor about it and how it works. Just a thought.

  Jeff Balak
  kdhtrans55@aol.com

• Date: Fri Apr 7 05:35:29 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John: Most times when the slide is hung in the pump the line pressure will start to rise when you give it full TV but then get unstable and begin dropping. Pull the TV cable only do not increase engine rpm to do this test. If pressure rises good when TV is pulled,the high pressure [105] will be due to a hung Throttle valve, TV limit valve or pressure regulator valve train. Possible mis adjusted cable or crossleak. Leave the 3/8 failsafe ball out if you have to pull the valve body. The no 4th problem may be problem #2. I would move your pressure gauge to the 4th gear tap ( you still should have it on the 88 case. 50-50 chance) Run it through the gears to see if pressure even trys to come up in the circuit. This is the quickest way to get going in the right direction as to if the problem is valve body, governor, or 4th circuit leak. Also remember you can have a good second and no 4th because of to much band clearance. Drill and Tap a servo cover to make a pressure tap if your case does not have one.Useful tool. Let us know.Good Luck. Paul.

  Paul Erickson
  stp1paul@aol.com

• Date: Fri Apr 7 07:04:51 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  The air check tool for the pump slide is cool. It lets you check the slide with all the parts installed and the pump halfs torqued. You blow air into the tool and you can hear and feel the slide move forward and snap back.

  Jim Eberhart
  eberhart@efortress.com

• Date: Fri Apr 7 09:48:04 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  do you have any boost with this or are you in boost? what pressure in rev. and in drive with the t.v. cable pulled?

  Jeff Anglesey
  apautooldtimer57@aol.com

UPDATE:

John Sines
johnbsines@compuserve.com

MORE RESPONSES:

• Date: Fri Apr 7 13:56:54 PDT 2000
  Subject: 700R4, No 4th Gear
  John, Here is a list of things to check in order: 1. Check max line in Drive and Reverse. Should be 150 psi in Reverse and 210(or more) in Drive. Pressures should not drop off. If it does you may have a bad pump. The pump has to really work hard to make that 4th gear shift so it needs to be perfect. 2. Worn governor bore 3. Gov. Gear too tight. 4. Check for correct governor weights. 5. Make sure Throttle Pressure is not too high so as to not influence line pressure. This will prevent a 4 th gear shift. 105 psi at idle is a little high. It should be a min of 65 to 70. 6. Check to see if the 4-3 sequence v