TRNi
4L60E Fix Database

4L60E Fixes for 2002 & 2003

QUESTION:


Date: Sat Jan 5 01:18:30 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, no 2nd drags on 4th
Vehicle: 93 chevy z71, 5.7
Mileage: 105000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: slips in 2nd & 4th

Original Codes Present: none

Previous Repairs: none


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: no 2nd drags on 4th

Codes Currently Present: none

Work Completed: removed trans, band was very burnt and drum hot. o/h, replaced input drum and epc. on test dr, shift 1/2 good, 2/3 good. when it shifts to 4th it feels like you have a 10,000 lb trailer behind you. slow down do several more upshifts, the same problem.just before i get back to the shop it looses 2nd. remove pan, see a piece of band material and fluid burnt odor. remove trans. band black. ck servo, v/body. could find nothing wrong. reinstalled. same problem. pressure test good, 60 at idle goes up w/throttle. replace v/body, same problem except on test dr no 2nd from getgo. grab another core, build it, works perfect. will disassemble original trans in the am.

Summary: none

Preston Farmer - 0

TRNi Member Since: 10/03/2001 (11 | 24)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Sat Jan 5 11:49:03 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, no 2nd drags on 4th

drag on 4th caused by locked up input sprag. loss of 2nd was a result of sprag and finish on drum too rough, it wiped the band lineing right off. Todd, i would suggest changeing the complaint to "binds up on 3/4 shift" since the loss of 2nd was not aprimary problem. But if i'm not mistaken, binds up 4th is already in fix base. thanks to those who responded. ip

Preston Farmer - 0

TRNi Member Since: 10/03/2001 (11 | 24)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Fri Jan 11 22:21:39 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade
Vehicle: 1996 Chevrolet Suburban, 350 V-8
Mileage: 68,756

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: Blowing fluid out of vent and transmission overheating.

Original Codes Present: P1870 TCC Slippage

Previous Repairs: Rebuild, Shift Kit, Woven Carbon Fiber Converter, All internal transmission electrical components, flat sanded pump halves, v/b, and torque everything to specs.


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: "It's doing the same thing as before. The check engine light comes on and 'my mechanic' tells me it has a slipping torque converter due to the P1870 code."

Codes Currently Present: P1870 TCC Slippage

Work Completed: None, yet. Customer will be back this Monday.

Summary: I orginally put the Life Temperature recorders on both cooler lines from the get-go and they show neither cooler line has ever been over 190F. I'm aware of the Sonnax products that address this issue, but I opted for the TransGo route, because it's supposed to fix this problem. My supplier didn't have the Sonnax products readily available, but had the Shift Kit in stock. From my understanding, the Shift Kit fixes this problem. I read the Fix Database first and found an interesting article written by Dan Tucker on diagnosing this often talked about problem. I have not had the opportunity to try his method, yet. Does the TFT affect lock up apply? Could I have the wrong converter in the vehicle because it didn't come with a Woven Carbon Fiber converter. Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestion are welcome.

Larry Bloodworth -

TRNi Member Since: 9/26/97 (11 | 44)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Sun Jan 20 15:07:04 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade

Replaced valve body with GM reman valve body. Hey, guys...feature this: I E-mailed Howard Johnson at Sonnax for a reamer and valve setup. My local supplier (ATC) had the reamer and valve in stock. About $130 for the reamer and $70 for the valve set up. Just for grins & giggles, I called my local GM dealer and they had the whole valve body WITH ALL THE ELECTRONICS (except pressure manifold switch) for only $130!!! I paid more than that for just the transmission's internal electronics. I'm guessing they are reaming the valve bore, too; because there's a $40 core charge on the valve body. So, I spent $170 and have $40 coming back. The core I sent back I stripped the $200 worth of electronics I previously bought and installed. :-( The next 4L60E I build...forget buying all the electronics. I'll just buy a valve body and get all the electronics (except pressure manifold switch and internal wiring harness)

Larry Bloodworth -
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNi Member Since: 9/26/97 (11 | 44)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Sun Jan 20 16:24:11 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade

Larry, I'd really be curious to find out if that VB HAS been fixed (reamed). I kinda doubt it has. Has it been installed yet? If not, take a look at it....please. But, with your lengthy warranty, I'm sure you'll find out one way or another. Hopefully it'll be a "no news is good news" scenario. Also, are you SURE the electronics are REALLY new, & not "remans" just like the VB? You know, just like Mopar does? The price is a pretty good clue as to what they do to these VB's. Think about it: would YOU do a VB with new solenoids, filter, acc. piston w/seal & a valve bore repair for $130.00? And as far as the reamer tool(s) are concerned; 2 jobs & it's paid for. Right Howard? It just sounds too good to be true. BUT, I DID hear about it on the Internet. ;<)

Ted Turney -
tedeb@pacbell.net
TRNi Member Since: 11/1/96 (1 | 54)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Sun Jan 20 17:53:44 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E 1870 PULLING A GRADE FIX

Larry- Watch out on these rebuilt GM V.B's. G.M. does nothing to compensate for AFL bore wear.I was told this at the Expo '01 by one of the seminar speakers. And, I'll wonder if all the solenoids are new, or "tested." Glad you fixed it.

Joey Campbell - Campbell's Transmission Service
bccampbe@sitestar.net
TRNi Member Since: 4/6/98 (1 | 172)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Sun Jan 20 18:59:42 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade

Larry, I've seen the prices on these valve bodies range from $130 to $550, depending on application. Don't ask why, no one seems to know. Anyway, I work for a GM dealer and I cringe every time I have to put one of these in. It's like playing Russian Roulette. I would also check different suppliers. I just got one of the Sonnax valves on Friday for about $35 from Transstar. The reamer was a one time purchase of about $100 that paid for itself a long time ago. Hope this helps.....

Larry Utter -
lcutter@warwick.net
TRNi Member Since: 1/11/98 (0 | 18)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Mon Jan 21 12:22:53 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade

in referance to tcc ramping on. I think it was jimmy who mentioned the 90% and 95% and the sequence of ramping on. I just finished driveing a 95 buick park ave and it's sequence is totaly different. tcc duty cycle is 0 until tcc is commanded on and then snappy starts at 100% AND very quickly goes down to around 45%. it then moves up and down with throttle but never higher than 49%. tcc slip moves from 5 to 20. once it gets hot, duty cycle starts at 100%, drops quickly, pauses at 45% then continues down to 0%. tcc slip never showes any decrease. is it supposed to ramp up like the 4l60e we've been discussing?? ip

Preston Farmer - 0
ipz73@aol.com
TRNi Member Since: 10/03/2001 (12 | 32)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Mon Jan 21 13:57:51 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, P1870 Only Pulling A Grade

jimmy my statement that tcc slip showes no decrease when duty cycle is o% may have been clear as mud. what i meant was/when hot as duty cycle ramps on, indicated tcc slip does not decrease. tcc continues to slip, then duty cycle continues to 0%

Preston Farmer - 0
ipz73@aol.com
TRNi Member Since: 10/03/2001 (12 | 33)


End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Thu Jan 17 17:08:40 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, po1870 97 S-10
Vehicle: 1997 chevy S-10, 2.2 4cul
Mileage: 45000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: dealer screwed it up

Original Codes Present: didn't check

Previous Repairs: Dealer put in reman.


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: check engine light on

Codes Currently Present: PO1870 tcc slip

Work Completed: none

Summary: This thing originaly came in with converter making metal.The said converter was painted gray with no codes or stickers. Converter was replaced with apaper clutch,10thvin is v,sonnax pwm valve,complete overhaul with all electronics. It has came back twice with fluid looking like motor oil.It takes about 100 mile trip to turn the light.MY QUESTION IS DOES IT NEED A CARBON CLUTCH.With snappy scanner half way through 1st gear tcc duty cycle goes to 90%,is it possible to have a carbon clutch in a 1997. Thanks in advance Fred.

Fred Whitaker - 0
ibsprag@hotmail.com
TRNi Member Since: 10/31/2001 (1 | 1)

RESPONSES:


UPDATE:


Date: Fri Jan 18 18:14:16 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, po1870 97 S-10

Thanks for all the responses.This thing has sat on A trash can all week.I finale tore it apart today.All clutches and band cherry.Bushings were starting to get Hawaiian daisies {LAKALUBE} I found the plastic duffus under the orifice in the pump against the lockup valve and rejoiced.Wen,t to lunch thought about it ,looked at it ,looked at it and I aint buyin it.I got the plastick housing with checkball and spring out without destroying it.I could visualise pump pressure knocking this ball capsule against the lockup valve,but I have a vivid imagination.The capsule is in one piece,could it wedge the valve?Too bad we all cant do this in a beer joint. THANKS From Fred

Fred Whitaker - 0
ibsprag@hotmail.com
TRNi Member Since: 10/31/2001 (1 | 2)

MORE RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Mon Jan 21 17:39:59 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, po1870 97 S-10

After having this thing on the back burner for over a week,first thinking carbon clutch,that wasn't it.Then I found the plastic orifice under the ball and spring above lockup valve in the pump cover. I was convinced that was it. Then I flopped the valve body on the bench,It already had sonnax valve&%>?!-3,I was gonna block it with a piece of cooler line Inner pump springs are hard to come by.That's when I FOUND IT the LITTLE VALVE THAT GOES IN BOTTOM OF BORE RATTLES AROUND LIKE A BB IN A TIN CAN. THE VALVE BODY IS WORN OUT ,CHEWED UP ,WASTED. The sonnax valve boring tool only uses this bottom bore as a guide,they should resleeve and revalve entire bore.Ive been working on transmissions too long and am sick os fixes that don't work.I didn't look there because this is supposed to be the fix,oh well. thanks for all the responses Fred

Fred Whitaker - 0
ibsprag@hotmail.com
TRNi Member Since: 10/31/2001 (1 | 2)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Sun Jan 27 09:31:17 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, po1870 97 S-10- fix

Fred, Glad you worked on this thing until you actually found the problem and reported the fix, however I don't think that Sonnax deserves critisism for not fixing this particular problem. If you have been in this businsess for any length of time, you will know that life before Sonnax, in particular the Task Force and all the fixes they have developed, was a crap shoot. Your choices were replacing a worn out valve body with another worn out valve body from a used parts supplier, or purchasing a new one from the dealer. Did you ever try to buy a rebuilt valve body from a dealer 15 or 20 years ago? I believe the only reason there are dealer available rebuilt v/bodies today is because of Sonnax (and others in the aftermarket) and their fixes. Look what happened when the aftermarket began making E4OD Boost Valves/sleeves for the pump- Ford decided it was now OK to sell that part without the rest of the pump assembly. Regarding your particular problem, others have already pointed out that there is a good chance the valve body had already got the GM re-bore, which is larger than the Sonnax kit, and I would have to agree. We have been checking these valves and installing the kit almost since they were developed and I have never seen a valve so loose as to 'rattle like a BB', even though most of the units we are now doing have 180,000 to 300,000 miles on the odometer. In addition, you also stated you didn't check the valve because it was suppose to be the fix. Welcome to the assumption club, which like you, every tech worth their salt will someday join as they fail to re-check their own or others work and get burned. In this case, you have to assume that the previous tech checked the bore for proper size/wear before reaming, installed it in the correct line up, and that the tech also checked it after to ensure he/she didn't screw it up performing the task. I would also urge you to not rely solely on this particular valve repair as the total fix. We are now finding, as others have found before us, that the AFL valve kit in the valve body and the TCC valve kit in the pump need to be installed in nearly every unit with high mileage. This may not be the proper forum for this type of post reply however I feel very strongly that to knock aftermarket companies like Sonnax is to shoot ourselves in the foot. Keep in mind that they are normal people like ourselves and that they have and will make mistakes, although they are the first to admit when they do. The most important thing we have to realize is that without these repairs, the small independant shop will never be able to compete with factory or large reman operations. And just in case you are wondering, I do not work for Sonnax or receive special discounts, however I am constantly amazed as I see a never ending line of new fixes and read all the useful tech info in their catalogues. In addition, you can actually speak with a knowledgeable tech and get anwers to your problems in a hurray.

David Schaffel - MTO Enterprises
dbschaffel@shaw.ca
TRNi Member Since: 6/9/00 (0 | 71)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Sun Jan 27 12:45:20 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, po1870 97 S-10- fix

Dave, I applaud your reply! This is a very good point we all need to understand! There are numerous points of view (opinions) and we don't always agree. We need companies like SONNAX to supply these valves and tools. With electronic controls and much higher service life, we have few alternatives! Thank you very much for taking valuable time to craft a very necessary reply. Wayne Russell

Wayne Russell -
rusauto@mediaone.net
TRNi Member Since: 11/11/98 (0 | 17)


End Of Thread





PROBLEM / FIX:


Date: Wed Feb 6 04:33:15 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, tcc slip at hard throttle-no codes
Vehicle: 1994 GMC 6.5 Diesel 4X4 Truck 1/2 ton.

Problem / Fix: This was a weird one that I thought was interesting, and hope it helps someone. This truck had previously been rebuilt by me at 90,000 miles due to a broken reaction shell.Complete overhaul with new OEM solenoids,Sonnax reverse boost valve,new OEM accumulator pistons, and Precision t.c. The 2-4 band was the hi-energy oem band and was re-used. Now, 145,000 miles on it,truck comes in for a complaint of tcc shudder on apply.Test drive verifies complaint.No codes stored. Pressure is 65-70psi hot,and rises well with throttle opening. For grins, I pull the v.b.,and find the tcc regulator bore worn badly.I installed the Sonnax -03 kit,and a tcc apply solenoid. Test drive and apply shudder is gone,..but scanner shows a tcc slip of 60-80rpms in D4 or D3 on hard acceleration.And tft has to be above 150 degrees F. O.K...I guess the t.c.lining has been slipped too long,so we pull the unit and install a new t.c.(pan and filter were clean as a whistle.) Road test reveals the same problem. After hearing that the afl bore is prone to wear,I pulled the v.b. again,and sure enough, the afl bore IS worn.I installed the Sonnax fix,and also the Sonnax tcc apply valve in the pump stator. SAME PROBLEM! Out it comes again, and this time I pulled the pump and input drum(thinking maybe burned 2-4 band or 3-4 clutches. I could not find a thing wrong with the pump,and the band and clutches look like they were installed yesterday! There was a leak in at the input drum(where the input shaft is pressed into the drum, but still no friction damage.) SHOTGUN APPROACH! I replaced the pump and input drum(re-used the 3-4's),and another t.c. SAME THING!!!!!!! I decide there must be a problem in the v.b.that I can't find,so as I'm changing it,I decide that I might as well install new v.b. gaskets.When I removed the 1-2 accumulator housing,the piston just fell out! NO DRAG on the seal at all,and the accumulator housing was worn badly. What the heck? I stop removing the v.b.,and install a good 1-2 acc.housing and piston, and.... IT'S FIXED! No tcc slip even at 190 degrees F. It appears that the loss of 2nd clutch oil VOLUME was the culprit.This oil feeds the tcc signal valve, and from there it goes to the tcc apply valve.So in my way of thinking, this loss of VOLUME caused this on-off tcc system to work kinda like a pwm tcc system. I believe the reason that the 2-4 band wasn't burned was because it was receiving enough pressure and volume to keep it applied. I don't have hydraulic charts for this trans...YET, so I have to really say a BIG THANK YOU to JIMMY TAYLOR who was kind enough to send me some and even call me on the phone. Also, and I'm going from memory here---Dan Tucker,Robert Bruce, Sam Pitts, Billy Anthony,Stevie Lavallee and ATRA. If I missed anyone, please except my appology. Sorry for the long post..just hope this helps someone.I would like to quote a friend who said "when you have a problem, don't start looking on the 25th floor...start in the basement..the root cause is almost always there."

Joey Campbell - Campbell's Transmission Service
bccampbe@sitestar.net
TRNi Member Since: 4/6/98 (1 | 180)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Fri Feb 8 15:39:14 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, p1870 after 35-45 miles
Vehicle: 1996 gmc yukon, 350 5.7
Mileage: 123000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: p1870 trans component slipping

Original Codes Present: metal in pan burnt fwds band smoked ect.also pump stator shaft was spline damaged replaced with aftermarket bolt on. p1870

Previous Repairs: mrk with steels trans go sk pump stator shaft gm33cw rpm/atc woven carbon fibre conv.band filter flush cooler 2nd visit a gm reman valve body and checked wire harness groud harness was factoy updated(no change needed)various scans ect.


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: p1870 keeps coming back trans seems to drive fine all shift components are within .50 sec.on shifts all shifts completed ect pressures fine ect. can drive all the time around town and all is ok but after hot frwy trip thats when all goes bad.

Codes Currently Present: p1870

Work Completed: valve body in pan harness ect.

Summary: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robert White -
doctranyyy@cs.com
TRNi Member Since: 7/14/99 (2 | 0)

RESPONSES:


UPDATE:


Date: Tue Feb 12 11:38:25 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, p1870 after 35-45 miles

Please understand that before I post anything we go thru all tech on the site first! 2nd we had a trans go kit in it 1st,then when it came back we installed a dealer valve body next,all GM valvebodys are either hogged out or the castings are new. 3rd the wire update was not needed due to a factory (mid production)change. Both slots for the ground wire pins had a black/white tracer in them.Same color code as update. SO where do we go from here? Also I hope all of the experts out there realize that on this trany that a code 1870 can be any trans component slipping NOT just the TCC circuit? Note all the shift error times are within spec.appx.53 of a second.Also atc/rpm sells only the woven clutch on these units as to there h.d. status?we are told by them that this is tested and ok? have anything else to add??? thanx bob white

Robert White -
doctranyyy@cs.com
TRNi Member Since: 7/14/99 (2 | 0)

MORE RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Tue Feb 19 11:14:08 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, p1870 after 35-45 miles

Wrong lining in the converter don't believe anybody CARBON WOVEN DOES NOT WORK IN ANYTHING BUT E CUBED E3 type system.it doesent matter what valves,shift kits or anything else you do dont use woven lining except 98 and up.

Robert White -
doctranyyy@cs.com
TRNi Member Since: 7/14/99 (2 | 0)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Wed Feb 20 04:22:12 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E P1870 AT 35-40 MINUTES

Robert- Glad you fixed it! A lot of people took time to help steer you in the right direction. Thanks for sharing your fix.

Joey Campbell - Campbell's Transmission Service
bccampbe@sitestar.net
TRNi Member Since: 4/6/98 (1 | 190)


End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Thu Feb 14 14:26:38 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, speedo not working.
Vehicle: 1993 chevy g10, 4.3
Mileage: 93000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: only 2nd gear. No upshift. speedo started to fail at the same time the transmission started to fail.

Original Codes Present: none

Previous Repairs: none


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: speedo still not working. delayed 1-2. no 2-3 or 3-4. no output rpm.

Codes Currently Present: 16 - vss drop out

Work Completed: overhauled transmission. Replaced vss.

Summary: Any advice? I was also told that the drac sensor might have something to do with this problem. Does anyone have the drac connector pin designations, I.E. vss signal, ground, etc. I've checked a few sources, including alldata, and all they have are generic diagrams.

Leon Lepore - 0
l_lepore@yahoo.com
TRNi Member Since: 1/4/2002 (1 | 0)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Wed Feb 20 09:36:25 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, speedo not working.

I found that we had a faulty DRAC. We replaced it and the van runs fine.

Leon Lepore - 0
l_lepore@yahoo.com
TRNi Member Since: 1/4/2002 (1 | 0)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Tue Feb 19 14:57:46 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, complete oh with tc electronics and pres
Vehicle: 98 chevy 1500 van, 350
Mileage: 130000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: no reverse

Original Codes Present: none

Previous Repairs: none


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: no reverse untill throttle is applied

Codes Currently Present: nomne

Work Completed: pulled unit back apart, replaced rev drum inspected pump,air test and reassembled Same problem, no reverse untill throttle is applied. Pressure test 55idle in drive 150appx at stall 75 idle reverse over 200 stall

Summary: let me clarify pressures drive idle 55psi drive stall 150psi rev idle 753 rev stall over 200 sorry but dont rember xact psi numbers My builder and have looked this thing over 3 times and dont see anything, this was supposed to be one of those gravey jobs. What are we over looking? DAN ALLEN DANCO TRANSMISSIONS 850-689-8646

Danny Allen -
danco@cfi.net
TRNi Member Since: 10/18/00 (3 | 3)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Fri Feb 22 08:28:48 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, complete oh with tc electronics and pres

Thanks to everyone who replyed, We pulled the unit one more time and inspected all related components and one again found no reason for the reverse problem, so we decided to take the advise recieved and modify the piston bleed hole. Plugged hole and drilled .050 releafe hole changed the cushion and put steel plate on bottom. Installed unit and works perfect! The part that still puzzles me is what was wrong, we do anywhere from 10 to20 of these units per month and this is the only one to give this problem, in fact have done 6 98 and 99 modles this week so far with 2 more in the lot wating. Just when you think you walk on water.Just kidding! Once again thanks to all who replied the info was greatly appreciated. DAN ALLEN DANCO TRANSMISSIONS CRESTVIEW FL. 850-689-8646

Danny Allen -
danco@cfi.net
TRNi Member Since: 10/18/00 (3 | 3)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Fri Feb 22 10:56:10 PST 2002
Subject: RE: 4L60E, complete oh with tc electronics and pres

Danny Feed & Bleed system.. More bleed than feed... lower volume at idle.. Been doing Gil's fix for many years. You may not have noticed it because of idle speed or any # of reasons, but it is there. We always drill & put 400 cup plugs on both sides of Rev. piston.. Only takes a minute. We then are able to reinstall the cushion spring & avoid harsh Rev. engagement. Thanks for posting the real fix. R.

Richard Webb -
gearmaster@reachone.com
TRNi Member Since: 6/22/97 (9 | 12)


End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Tue Feb 19 20:06:49 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, No Line Rise 4l60E (19940
Vehicle: 1994 GMC 4X4 Pickup, 5. L
Mileage: 111K

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: Tow in. No move. Bad TC

Original Codes Present: 67 or 69 (I forget)

Previous Repairs: Rebuilt 2 years ago


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: Has not left shop. No line rise. Replaced TC, guts were fine.

Codes Currently Present: None

Work Completed: Replaced TC, vehicle shifts fine for about 5 miles and then begins to downshift or slip. No line rise. Pressure is 75# in all ranges except R, then it jumps to 85#

Summary: Before replacing TC, unit was disassembled and was fine. I'm planning on replacing entire internal harness along with a new PCS in the AM. Old PCS checked out at 5.0 ohms. Computer shows no codes and all tests except for line rise appear to be in order according to Snappy. Thanks. Jim, III

James J. Schier III - Discount Transmission Center
stardust@frontiernet.net
TRNi Member Since: 10/22/97 (11 | 273)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Sun Feb 24 21:52:20 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, No Line Rise 4l60E (19940

PCS solenoid checked out. On a whim I replaced it. Vehicle is fixed and gone. I'm not even going to bother to check the PCS anymore, it will just become a rebuild standard to replace it. This is the second time that I have been fooled, there will not be a third. I truly thank the handful that replied and I will REMEMBER who you are. Jim, III

James J. Schier III - Discount Transmission Center
stardust@frontiernet.net
TRNi Member Since: 10/22/97 (11 | 275)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Tue Mar 5 06:50:11 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, Repeat planet failure within 100 miles
Vehicle: 1998 GMC SONOMA, 2.2
Mileage: 93000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: No movement. Rear planet, ring gear, sun gear, reaction carrier.

Original Codes Present: Code 1870

Previous Repairs: Complete overhaul, with clutches, seals, gaskets, sprags, planet, ring gear, sun gear, reaction carrier, sun shell, sonnax TCC regulator valve kit, solenoids, rebuilt converter.


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: Same as before

Codes Currently Present: None

Work Completed: Disassemble unit and inspect shaft, lube holes, etc.. Nothing found blocked. Planet is gone again.

Summary: Could this be the cooler, or am I overlooking something else. Thanks for your help.

Mark Bowler -
bowler@midwest.net
TRNi Member Since: 9/18/00 (8 | 0)

RESPONSES:


UPDATE:


Date: Tue Mar 5 08:18:42 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, Repeat planet failure within 100 miles

I have checked the orifice in the pump and the seal under the sprag. Both are fine. I have assembled the pump with the clutch units and the output shaft on the bench. Using air pressure there is good flow coming from the pump out to the output shaft. The converter was and HZ, that is the same that came out. The planet came from WIT. I haven't had any problems with there planets lately. The planet is black, so I feel it is a lube problem somewhere. Thanks for the help so far.

Mark Bowler -
bowler@midwest.net
TRNi Member Since: 9/18/00 (8 | 0)

MORE RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Thu Mar 7 17:44:01 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, Repeat planet failure within 100 miles

Bypassed cooler and installed a external Tru-cool. So far so good. The customer stopped by today and said it is doing great. After inspecting everything else, I feel this was the fix. Thanks for all the help!

Mark Bowler -
bowler@midwest.net
TRNi Member Since: 9/18/00 (8 | 0)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Tue Mar 12 12:23:29 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, drops out of od and third back to second
Vehicle: 1993 chevrolet 1500, 5.7
Mileage: 173780

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: intermittetly dropping out of od into second

Original Codes Present: no codes

Previous Repairs: rebuilt put solenoids pump planetaries at 163620 miles


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: dropping out of od down to second or first at 40 to 60 mph pull over on side of road trans works right for a little bit then back to the same thing

Codes Currently Present: no codes

Work Completed: hooked up snap on scanner no codes hooked up transx showed calling for 2nd sometimes or 1st sometimes

Summary: drove truck downshifted while in od to second pulled over and stopped vehicle completely trans worked good for a while then downshifted again around 50 mph trans was rebuilt 10,000 miles ago need help if possible

Rick Taylor -
rickstrans@simplecom.net
TRNi Member Since: 9/28/99 (2 | 0)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Wed Mar 20 14:20:21 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, drops out of od and third back to second

Customer installed used computer haven't heard from him in a week assume it is fixed

Rick Taylor -
rickstrans@simplecom.net
TRNi Member Since: 9/28/99 (2 | 0)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Thu Mar 21 10:12:38 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, none yet
Vehicle: 1994 chevrolet 20 series 2wd van, 5.0
Mileage: 74,000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: #rd gear starts

Original Codes Present: sol. B code

Previous Repairs: Replaced shift solenoids both A&B and manifold pressure manifold switch


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: 3rd gear starts

Codes Currently Present: sol. B and once had quad driver B

Work Completed: Hooked tranx, pressure gauge and snappy up drove 4 hours pressures normal everything worked fine. The van is a vendors they load it with 50 cases pop and boom failsafe.

Summary: Every time after we worked on this van I would hook everything [tranx, snappy, pressure gauge] everything would read fine, I told them it must only happen loaded and they loaded it sure enough the van doesn't even have to move and I can watch it go to failsafe clear codes watch the scanner with-in 5 sec. failsafe and we get a code for sol. B circuit I assume the circuit has a problem and yes I am going to hook tranx to it and measure resistance on the B cir. and at the computer but I don't understand why it has to be loaded.By the way a case of pop is 21 lbs so were only talking about 1000 lbs

Bud Tegeler -
tegtrans@essex1.com
TRNi Member Since: 5/14/98 (8 | 32)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Fri Mar 22 14:59:01 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, none yet

It took a while to find the computor, under the drivers seat, but it makes wire checks easy with the doghouse removed. I put an ohm meter on the sol. a&b circuits they were the same had my brother watch and I pulled and twisted wire harness thinking surely it was wires just before the computor but meter never moved. My brother went and borrowed a computer from the local yard ,we went for drive and as soon as it went limp I tried clearing codes and it went right back, put the borrowed unit on and problem dissapeared. Why it only did it with weight I don't know. Ordered a new computer but for now it's working fine with the used one. Just a side note the van squated almost 2 inches with a skid of pop, Thanks everyone Bud

Bud Tegeler -
tegtrans@essex1.com
TRNi Member Since: 5/14/98 (8 | 32)

End Of Thread





PROBLEM / FIX:


Date: Mon Apr 1 02:49:51 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, P1870
Vehicle: 1998 Chevrolet Astro

Problem / Fix: Group- Had a van this past week...61,000 miles..would set a P1870 code after about 10 miles of hard driving. TFT was 150*F or more, and tcc slip would climb to 400+ with tcc pwm duty cycle maxed. Pressure test was good(65# mainline and pressure rise was clean and smooth.) On a dare, I inspected the pan and filter..(clean as a whistle) Then, I dropped the v.b. and installed the Sonnax -04k kit,along with a new filter and fluid. The tcc regulator bore was worn badly! Test drove the vehicle for over 100 miles, and now tcc slip is NEVER over 50 rpms at anytime,..even with TFT above 175*F. The 400+ tcc slip rpm really made me think there had to be a deeper problem, but I was amazed at the fact that the Sonnax kit fixed it so well. Thank You, Sonnax! This EC3 system (woven lining) is some tough stuff! The customer was DELIGHTED that we were able to save them money,..(yes.. I explained that something else COULD go wrong with the tranny later,and this was a fix for a specific concern.) BUT..they sure liked the fact they did'nt have to overhaul the trans. at this time! Again, Thanks Sonnax! Joey Campbell

Joey Campbell - Campbell's Transmission Service
bccampbe@sitestar.net
TRNi Member Since: 4/6/98 (1 | 237)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Mon Apr 1 06:59:27 PST 2002
Subject: RE: P1870

Joey: Question...is the Sonnax valve redesigned or have some improvements to keep this from happening again in another 61K miles?

Larry Bloodworth - Certified Transmission & Drivetrain Clinic
larrybloodworth@hotmail.com
TRNi Member Since: 9/26/97 (13 | 65)

RESPONSE TO FIX:

Date: Tue Apr 2 03:17:51 PST 2002
Subject: RE: P1870

We feel it will just last another 60k and so we use the sk kit and paper tc.

Chuck Stasny - 0
cdsstaz@wt.net
TRNi Member Since: 12/7/2001 (2 | 22)

UPDATE BY AUTHOR:

Date: Tue Apr 2 04:40:04 PST 2002
Subject: RE: P1870

Hi Larry- I think Seth answered your question, but let me ask you .... How long is this tranny supposed to last? Remember, this was a REPAIR...NOT an overhaul. Yes, I realize that the reaction shell may break tomorrow,or the pump bushing may collapse and start leaking like a sieve,or the rear planet bearing may fail,............................. etc,... but then, even if I did overhaul it for this P1870, the replacement torque converter that I might have used COULD explode in, say 10,000 miles. Then who gets to pay? The point I was trying to make was that I could not believe the amount of tcc slip BEFORE the Sonnax fix,and that the woven lining in the t.c. could withstand such slippage and still be able to maintain the desired amount of controlled slippage once the Sonnax 04K kit was installed. Glad to see you're back active on TRNi.

Joey Campbell - Campbell's Transmission Service
bccampbe@sitestar.net
TRNi Member Since: 4/6/98 (1 | 237)


End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Tue Apr 2 17:34:11 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, No forward engagement
Vehicle: 1996 Chevrolet Suburban 4X4, 350
Mileage: 155,000

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: Slipping real bad in forward gears.

Original Codes Present: 1870 TCC slip

Previous Repairs: Periodic servicing only -pan drops-filter changes.


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: No forward engagement-reverse is fine.

Codes Currently Present: None

Work Completed: Pressure checks and line rise all within normal range.

Summary: I rebuilt this trans-installed an Aceomatic super kit, pressure switch, position switch, force motor, and all solinoids-all oem. Replaced the convertor with an Aceomatic house brand. The only reference I can find to this problem is in the ATSG manual which points to a stator roller clutch not holding inside the torque converter. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Respectfully submitted, Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Loren Knighton -
backncardr@aol.com
TRNi Member Since: 4/23/97 (2 | 3)

RESPONSES:



FIX:


Date: Thu Apr 4 17:13:34 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, No forward engagement

Finally got this trans back from the shop that installed it. Lo and behold on teardown I find that I had left out the input sun gear. The trans works fine now. Feeling real stupid here. I would like to thank all the builders that took their time to help including Dan Tucker who kindly posted a page from his Trans Doc program. In my case builder's blindness should have been at the top of that list. :-/ Respectfully submitted, Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Loren Knighton -
backncardr@aol.com
TRNi Member Since: 4/23/97 (2 | 3)

End Of Thread





QUESTION:


Date: Thu Mar 28 14:32:36 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, Converter not releasing
Vehicle: 1995 Chevrolet Sanoma, 2.2
Mileage: 72,539

PAST REPAIRS;

Original Customer Complaint: Shutter type feel when slowing down

Original Codes Present: 69

Previous Repairs: Complete Overhaul, Converter, wiring harness w/solenoid. Converter still does not unlock when stopping, pressing brakes, etc. Once stopped, and engine killed, will start-up and take off just fine. Or, you can pull it into manual low and then back to OD and take off just fine. Cannot find any stuck valves. Have even tried another harness c/solenoid. Anyone else seen such?


REPAIRS THIS VISIT;

Current Customer Complaint: Same as before

Codes Currently Present: 69

Work Completed: Recheck previous work.

Summary: Computer is commanding TCC off, according to scanner.

Felix Turner III -
felixt3@charter.net
TRNi Member Since: 8/4/00 (1 | 1)

RESPONSES:


UPDATE:


Date: Sat Mar 30 05:22:52 PST 2002
Subject: 4L60E, Converter not releasing

Went into again - cannot find a valve sticking, pump or valve body. Went to the Olds/Cad/Buick/Chevy dealership (where I work at times since 1984) so my buddies could hook-up the Tech 2. We drove and commanded Converter on ourselves, that was fine, just as the computer does it, but we could not command it off. It stated that it was off, but was not. It is appearing to me that once the apply valve in the pump is moved to the apply position, then perhaps pressure from some other source is keeping the valve "applied," even though the solenoid has "dumped" the apply pressure. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Felix Turner III -
felixt3@charter.net
TRNi Member Since: 8/4/00 (1 | 1)

MORE RESPONSES: